Engine choices ..
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
I would go with this. http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/434_e85.php
Runs on E-85. Bolt it in and go.
Runs on E-85. Bolt it in and go.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 75
From: Tampa Bay FL
Are 18 degree heads an option? Don't they offer much improved flow over 23 degree heads and fit on the SBC block? I'm sure stock hood clearance would be a big issue with 18 degree heads. Just a thought.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: New York
Compression ratio is to high for the street 13.1 ... AT 10.5 the hybird makes 579hp with only 380 cubic inches , at 427hp it makes 639 .
Here is a build up
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_09...own_ls_engine/
Here is a build up
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_09...own_ls_engine/
Last edited by diehrd; Mar 15, 2014 at 01:26 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 217
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From: Shearwater Nova Scotia
I would go with this. http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/434_e85.php
Runs on E-85. Bolt it in and go.
Runs on E-85. Bolt it in and go.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
Next season I was going to drop my my ZZ430 and go with a 427 sbc .
I read and read and see all the LS mods and like what I have seen except all the conversion items it requires.
So my question is who has seen , or knows people using the Motown LS motor ? Based on a sbc using all sbc bolt on's and LS heads ?
It is hard to find much info on them , except for Bill Mitchell who had a clip on his 427 set up which pulled 639hp easily enough.
I read and read and see all the LS mods and like what I have seen except all the conversion items it requires.
So my question is who has seen , or knows people using the Motown LS motor ? Based on a sbc using all sbc bolt on's and LS heads ?
It is hard to find much info on them , except for Bill Mitchell who had a clip on his 427 set up which pulled 639hp easily enough.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Compression ratio is to high for the street 13.1 ... AT 10.5 the hybird makes 579hp with only 380 cubic inches , at 427hp it makes 639 .
Here is a build up
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_09...own_ls_engine/
Here is a build up
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_09...own_ls_engine/
I think World is out of business. Don't know if the block and adapter plates, valley cover are available.
Last edited by 63mako; Mar 15, 2014 at 04:24 PM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
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From: New York
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Everyone over looks 18 degree heads. I dont know why. HP/dollar they are hard to beat and nothing fancy to adapt other than rail mount rocker sys. well u need a 18* intake also - BFD.
Try Trick Flow® Ultra 18® 250 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Chevrolet for $2,200 (big azz 250cc runners though).
Or GMPP 18* #24502580 heads with only 215cc intk runners for $750 each but only semi-finished (bare). Again rail rockers suggested but longer vlvs needed (2.200 intakes wow).
Much easier upgrade and less headaches than LS stlye head swap and cheaper block too - though for that power level a stronger aftermarket block would really be needed.
Ive always like that idea of using 18* heads and i think Trick Flow used to sell a smaller runner 18* head but dont see it now.
cardo0
Try Trick Flow® Ultra 18® 250 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Chevrolet for $2,200 (big azz 250cc runners though).
Or GMPP 18* #24502580 heads with only 215cc intk runners for $750 each but only semi-finished (bare). Again rail rockers suggested but longer vlvs needed (2.200 intakes wow).
Much easier upgrade and less headaches than LS stlye head swap and cheaper block too - though for that power level a stronger aftermarket block would really be needed.
Ive always like that idea of using 18* heads and i think Trick Flow used to sell a smaller runner 18* head but dont see it now.
cardo0
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 158
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From: Maui Hawaii
The BBC has always held the inherent advantage of better flowing heads (semi-hemi splayed valve configuration) than the SBC heads. When GM came out with the LS engines with the superior flowing LS heads, has anyone or any magazine done flow testing comparing the BBC heads vs. the LS heads of similar port/valve sizes? If LS heads can be made to flow better (or same) than the BBC heads then why build/run a BBC in the 396-454 CI range when an LS or Motown LS Hybrid is lighter and can make equal or greater power? I'm curious if anyone heard or read something that answers this question?
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 158
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From: Maui Hawaii
diehrd, I was thinking about the exhaust header situation. An LS header for the C3 probably won't work because the exhaust ports are not exactly in the same position as when the LS heads are on an LS block. I looked at http://www.stainlessheaders.com/customheaders and they can provide a PVC mock-up kit that you can use once the Hybrid is installed in your Vette. Send them the finished jig and they can make the SS headers for you that will definitely preclude interference problems when you install. Nice thing about these custom headers is that you can get them built with the primary tube diameter that you want. At $2400+, they ain't cheap though.
The above brings up a good question on whether you can purchase steel LS swap headers for the C3, take a torch to the primaries and do the slight bends to make them fit and then send them out to be coated for much less $?
The above brings up a good question on whether you can purchase steel LS swap headers for the C3, take a torch to the primaries and do the slight bends to make them fit and then send them out to be coated for much less $?
Last edited by 82CFI; Mar 15, 2014 at 07:41 PM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
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From: New York
diehrd, I was thinking about the exhaust header situation. An LS header for the C3 probably won't work because the exhaust ports are not exactly in the same position as when the LS heads are on an LS block. I looked at http://www.stainlessheaders.com/customheaders and they can provide a PVC mock-up kit that you can use once the Hybrid is installed in your Vette. Send them the finished jig and they can make the SS headers for you that will definitely preclude interference problems when you install. Nice thing about these custom headers is that you can get them built with the primary tube diameter that you want. At $2400+, they ain't cheap though.
The above brings up a good question on whether you can purchase steel LS swap headers for the C3, take a torch to the primaries and do the slight bends to make them fit and then send them out to be coated for much less $?
The above brings up a good question on whether you can purchase steel LS swap headers for the C3, take a torch to the primaries and do the slight bends to make them fit and then send them out to be coated for much less $?
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
diehrd, I was thinking about the exhaust header situation. An LS header for the C3 probably won't work because the exhaust ports are not exactly in the same position as when the LS heads are on an LS block. I looked at http://www.stainlessheaders.com/customheaders and they can provide a PVC mock-up kit that you can use once the Hybrid is installed in your Vette. Send them the finished jig and they can make the SS headers for you that will definitely preclude interference problems when you install. Nice thing about these custom headers is that you can get them built with the primary tube diameter that you want. At $2400+, they ain't cheap though.
The above brings up a good question on whether you can purchase steel LS swap headers for the C3, take a torch to the primaries and do the slight bends to make them fit and then send them out to be coated for much less $?
The above brings up a good question on whether you can purchase steel LS swap headers for the C3, take a torch to the primaries and do the slight bends to make them fit and then send them out to be coated for much less $?
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 158
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From: Maui Hawaii
On my next SBC build and swap, I was hoping to install a front-runner serpentine belt accessory system running the Alt, P/S pump & A/C compressor from Billet Specialties, Concept One or Vintage Air. It looks like those front mounted head adapters for the coolant outflow with the pipe threaded/AN fittings (1 on each side) on this Hybrid engine won't allow for an install of any serpentine belt system from these suppliers. And maybe not even for the OEM Camaro serpentine system either which is popular with some of our C3 brethren.
Last edited by 82CFI; Mar 15, 2014 at 10:19 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 158
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From: Maui Hawaii
Mentions that the LS has a greater deck height, taller and wider at the top than the Hybrid. I'm puzzled by the contradiction but from the photo it looks like the LS heads sit higher from the crank centerline than the Hybrid ... might be an optical illusion or side-by-side engine positioning that's causing it though.
EDIT: Emailed 2 questions regarding what was discussed above (LS swap headers & front runner serpentine belt accessory systems) to World Castings/BMP. Will post their answers here when I get them.
Last edited by 82CFI; Mar 15, 2014 at 10:14 PM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: New York
On my next SBC build and swap, I was hoping to install a front-runner serpentine belt accessory system running the Alt, P/S pump & A/C compressor from Billet Specialties, Concept One or Vintage Air. It looks like those front mounted head adapters for the coolant outflow with the pipe threaded/AN fittings (1 on each side) on this Hybrid engine won't allow for an install of any serpentine belt system from these suppliers. And maybe not even for the OEM Camaro serpentine system either which is popular with some of our C3 brethren.
The head adapters for the thermostat can be hard plumbed to anywhere from what I see And you may be able to drill those adapters to allow for that plumbing
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
This is off of Worlds site:
The Motown LS block is also designed for the water flow characteristics and bolt pattern of the LS head. It is manufactured with a 9.240-inch deck height that matches production LS blocks, so off-the-shelf LS manifolds bolt right up. Headers designed for LS-style cylinder heads are required.
http://www.worldcastings.com/news_ar...iew.php?nak=69
The Motown LS block is also designed for the water flow characteristics and bolt pattern of the LS head. It is manufactured with a 9.240-inch deck height that matches production LS blocks, so off-the-shelf LS manifolds bolt right up. Headers designed for LS-style cylinder heads are required.
http://www.worldcastings.com/news_ar...iew.php?nak=69
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,000
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From: New York
Read the caption of photo 19 in that Vette article that diehrd provided above: http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_09.../photo_19.html
Mentions that the LS has a greater deck height, taller and wider at the top than the Hybrid. I'm puzzled by the contradiction but from the photo it looks like the LS heads sit higher from the crank centerline than the Hybrid ... might be an optical illusion or side-by-side engine positioning that's causing it though.
EDIT: Emailed 2 questions regarding what was discussed above (LS swap headers & front runner serpentine belt accessory systems) to World Castings/BMP. Will post their answers here when I get them.
Mentions that the LS has a greater deck height, taller and wider at the top than the Hybrid. I'm puzzled by the contradiction but from the photo it looks like the LS heads sit higher from the crank centerline than the Hybrid ... might be an optical illusion or side-by-side engine positioning that's causing it though.
EDIT: Emailed 2 questions regarding what was discussed above (LS swap headers & front runner serpentine belt accessory systems) to World Castings/BMP. Will post their answers here when I get them.
I think those statements mean Motown LS to a standard SBC of old.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: New York
63mako .. what do you think , I mean the header issue is for all LS motors .. And with me having the EZ efi would you think this route better then going with a 427 sbc ? ANd less a effort then LS but with LS power ?