1968 427 435 engine kick back
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 324
Likes: 3
From: morristown nj
1968 427 435 engine kick back
Need some help Have a restored 68 vette 427 435 car all totally stock as produced. I am having a starter issue which I believe is related to the ignition. When the car was finished it had a GM stock 50 pound starter in it. It only lasted about a dozen starts. The sympton was hit the key and a loud bang and the starter was done. Bought a new little high tork job and installed it gears do line up correctly not a shimming problem. It lasted about 25 starts same bang and gone. I believe it must be an ignition problem maybe with the trans ig. The timing when I got the car was about 30 degrees to advanced don't know why rolled it back to about 12 with vac disc. TDC is correct so timing marks are ok. The fellow who built the car said for me to check the hookup of the ti so he must know something. Any help would be appreciated. All parts of the car new all wires etc. It is not a heating issue usually when cold it cranks and starts not to quickly but it does usually happens when restarting not hot though. Thanks for the help Richard
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 7
What does "bang and gone" mean? The starter motor burned up or the shaft the pinion is on broke or what? How did the starters actually fail?
Just your use of the word "kickback" makes me think it is still too advanced. It sounds like you actually have had the car running. Is that correct? How's the exhaust smell, if you're eyes are burning that usually a clue to too much timing, but it could be overly rich as well. When the engine is running, how does it run? Does it run well enough that you know the firing order is right?
Need more info.
Just your use of the word "kickback" makes me think it is still too advanced. It sounds like you actually have had the car running. Is that correct? How's the exhaust smell, if you're eyes are burning that usually a clue to too much timing, but it could be overly rich as well. When the engine is running, how does it run? Does it run well enough that you know the firing order is right?
Need more info.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,381
Likes: 416
From: N J
Had a 68 big block that had TI also. Was not the original engine, but it was doing exactly what you are describing. Turn the key and BANG! another broken starter nose.
When it did start ok, after I shut the motor off, less than a minute later it would actually turn by itself for a moment. In my case, the car was not original so the TI parts were sold for good $$$, a points dizzy went in and that was the end of it. Good luck.
When it did start ok, after I shut the motor off, less than a minute later it would actually turn by itself for a moment. In my case, the car was not original so the TI parts were sold for good $$$, a points dizzy went in and that was the end of it. Good luck.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 692
Likes: 2
From: Seguin TX
It has something to do with the yellow wire from the starter to the ignition coil but what that is I don't know. The yellow wire on my starter is not connected now and it starts very easily and no problems. Also pay attention and see if the car actually starts when turning the key or right after you release it. I am no expert by no means but something i figured out along the way on troubleshooting my electrical system.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 324
Likes: 3
From: morristown nj
What does "bang and gone" mean? The starter motor burned up or the shaft the pinion is on broke or what? How did the starters actually fail?
Just your use of the word "kickback" makes me think it is still too advanced. It sounds like you actually have had the car running. Is that correct? How's the exhaust smell, if you're eyes are burning that usually a clue to too much timing, but it could be overly rich as well. When the engine is running, how does it run? Does it run well enough that you know the firing order is right?
Need more info.
Just your use of the word "kickback" makes me think it is still too advanced. It sounds like you actually have had the car running. Is that correct? How's the exhaust smell, if you're eyes are burning that usually a clue to too much timing, but it could be overly rich as well. When the engine is running, how does it run? Does it run well enough that you know the firing order is right?
Need more info.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 7
Thanks for the reply The minute I turn the key to start it as it tries to start there is a loud sound like a hammer hitting the side of the engine and it appears that the planetery gear in the starter breaks only small starters have planetery gears. I usually get about 25 normal starts out of the engine am able to run it before this occurs. The engine runs clean no richness at all seems to be okay.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 324
Likes: 3
From: morristown nj
starter probs
If you do some research on broken starter noses, the primary causes seem to be backfiring, loose mis-aligned starter, loose or bent flywheel, bent or missing teeth on the flywheel ring gear or a mis-alignment of the pressed-on ring gear and flywheel. If you have a Metric starter, but SAE holes for the starter bolts in the block, the starter can move even if it seems tight. Apparently any mis-alignment or kickback makes for a situation when the forces are trying to separate the ring gear and the starter pinion and the only way for that to happen is for the nose to break. The support at the front of the normal starter to the block is supposed to help kept the alignment. It's not there primarily as a support for the weight. Since you had 2 different starters and starter types on the engine, I would be looking at the ring/flywheel/starter alignment end of things.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 7
Thanks for the help. The starters are not cracking the nose they are breaking internally the little high torque jobs have planetary gears that go instantly. I really have been concentrating now on the wiring for the ti I the builder of the car suggested it maybe wrong. Thanks again
You're working on the kickback aspect of this I take it. For that to happen as part of some ignition fault, you need something like cylinder no. 2 firing after no.1, instead of no. 8 firing after no. 1. The distribution of the spark is really a mechanical thing, as in a problem with the rotor or distributor cap. You don't happen to have one of those corrected caps do you? Read some bad stuff on those here a week or 2 ago.
Call 765-962-4265 and ask for Dave. He is good with ignitions, even TIs.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 324
Likes: 3
From: morristown nj
starter orig
You are right the original starter didn't break but it was putting double the voltage internally and gave up after a few hits yes it took more than the little ones with gears
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 7
BTW, check your PMs.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
, loose mis-aligned starter, If you have a Metric starter, but SAE holes for the starter bolts in the block, the starter can move even if it seems tight. Apparently any mis-alignment or kickback makes for a situation when the forces are trying to separate the ring gear and the starter pinion and the only way for that to happen is for the nose to break .