Hi I'm looking at purchase of 73 C3. Total corvette rookie. Learning from is forum, here is what I have figured out.
Not numbers matching, no VIN ID on block.
Casting on block is 3963512 T so might match 454 badging in hood at least, but....
I believe it's a warranty replacement or crate.
The VIN stamp location in front of valve cover has CExZZxx O
The date stamp, I'm taking a flier that it says 1 19x 8
Only other stamp other than firing order is CONV 1 GM5

Can someone shed some light on what I might be looking at?

Thank you fellow gear heads!
Shawn

 

With this being your first time looking into an older Corvette, I would recommend taking someone with you that is familiar with these cars and has no intention of purchasing the car to help you out. For a lot of us, it is love at first sight and our emotions get the best of us sometimes.

If you would like someone from the forum to help (and most on here are always willing to go look at another Corvette), let us know where you are located to see if someone near by might respond.

You should be able to tell if it is a 350 or 454 pretty easily by looking at the motor, even just by the size of the valve covers.

I am not a block numbers guru, so I will let someone else speak about the numbers and all.

 

The 3963512 block was not used in Corvettes after 1971, so that's an additional clue that this is not the original engine for this car. The CE stamp could be either for a crate or warranty engine, but obviously not warranty for this car. There's no way of knowing what's inside without disassembly.

 

Are you looking for an 'original' Corvette, numbers matching. If not, nothing wrong with a CE block, just be sure the price is in line with what the market is paying for NOMs these days. Either way, be sure to inspect for rust and signs of severe collision. Repairs to address either of these areas get expensive quickly.

 

Thank you all. I guess more specifically, my question is, is there any possibility that the engine I refer to is a 427 crate? As well, I wanted to eliminate the possibility that this could have been a truck engine. Initially I was mislead by the 'T' that follows the 512 code. Understand now that refers to a manufacturing facility. As I understand it, if the CE is a crate engine (is that conclusive?), there is no way to verify if this a 'corvette' engine. But does the 454 crate still have marketability?
As for the car itself, it is r-u-f-f rough. Birdcage up top is flaky, frame is solid enough except for the rails in front of rear wheels, body is ok, but 5 yr old paint is cracking/bubbling peeling in about 20 spots. Door pillars are Swiss cheese. Body mounts look decent surprisingly.
Mechanically, it was a factory air car, PO pulled the compressor and the pulley. Might be my inexperience, but it looks like the remaining 3 pulleys were mis-aligned. A short test drive and a ratty looking belt popped off. The engine was strong, let's face it, that's why I'm here! The transmission -3 speed auto - ran through the gears well enough, but the kick down under hard acceleration was a no-go. New rad, alternator, and starter. Brakes need done.
I'm looking for something that won't fall apart any worse wipe during Sunday drives with some minor upkeep and some initial patch and weld. If the engine proves itself, I'll do a complete resto in a couple years, just to get it to nice polished driver status. Until then, smoke the tires. Did I mention it has hooker headers and side pipes? Loud and mean. Anyways, here are a few stamp pictures, and further insight into motor origins/potential/desirability would be appreciated. I'm a buyer of this vehicle at $5k CDN! I have a handshake deal with the sales guy, just need to get mgmt approval. This vehicle and I are a stones throw from Alaska. Not a lot of muscle car projects to look at in this neck of the woods. Do i know what I'm getting myself into? Probably not, but do we ever? My experience has been limited to one previous project, I did a frame off amateur restoration of a 1978 IH Scout II Terra with orig 345 V8 and 727 3 speed. Want to learn to weld, bondo, and tune an engine to squeeze all the power you can out of a torque monster? Get a scout! Thanks again, and opinion would be appreciated! Can't submit photos from my iPad, I'll try and create an album shortly. Any pointers on that?

 

512 blocks used for 427 and 454 engines with both 2 and 4 bolt mains between 1969 and 1971 and installed in cars and light trucks of all types. CE engines were also supplied for all truck and cars models.

Your description of the rest of the car would scare me away from a resto even if it were free.

 

Thanks Mike. So if the 454 in 73 only had 25 more ponies than the SBC 350 of that year, and assume two non # match cars, but the 350 had a solid birdcage, if they were equal sale price there is no reason to go after the 454? From an off the line and smoke the tires perspective?

 

'73 Corvette' and 'smoking the tires' don't usually appear in the same sentence.If an engine in a car is not the original, how would you know how much power it makes?

I wouldn't buy any Corvette that didn't have a 100% solid birdcage and frame. Once was enough.

 

Interesting. Well, up until I ran out of gas on the test drive, I had the tires spinning every time I stepped a little too hard. Probably something about to let to in drive train. Anyways thanks for the dose of reality. Probably not enough to get me to see reason and save myself endless grief, but I appreciate you taking the time to try!!

 

One more question. I've learned that the CE 512 engine was made in 1970, so to end up in a 73 vette, must have been a shade tree install from one wrecker into another. HP ratings on the 1970 454 4 bolts run from 360-450 hp. Possibly the one I see is of the 360hp variety? No aluminum heads or anything, any other possible clues to look for to narrow it down? Can one assume that any 454 made in 1970 at the Towanada plant that's a 4 bolt would be a minimum 390 HP??? Fingers crossed..... Tell me something good, lie if you have to!

 

In late 69 and 70 the same block 3968512 was used in both 427 and then 454's. The diff was that 427's were internally balanced and not 454's but same block. Check behind the front balancer. If it has a counter weight inside, it's a 454.

 

And a 69 427 is still going to churn 390 hp, little less torque, but still a beast. The car is a nightmare for condition of steel, but I'm going to have a hard time walking away from it knowing this now. Just to confirm, CE coded engines are built to same specs as the engines they replaced, right? A 1969 512 427 CE has the same performance as a VIN matching 1969 512 427 installed in a Vette? Seems a sill question i know, but when I'm wrangling a new bird cage in, I want to be sure I'm doing it for the right reasons. Besides testosterone fuelled stupidity, that is

 

Since this doesn't appear to be a dealer installed warranty replacement I don't think you can make any valid assumptions on what's inside that block. Even if it were numbers matching there's no way of know what's in there once the engine has been worked on.

You could check the casting numbers on the heads and intake to get an idea whether they were ever used on a Corvette application. No easy way of knowing what it has for a cam, crank, or pistons without tearing it down.

The remark about the frame being bad in front of the rear wheels indicates this car will need a lot of repairs. Are you really up for it? Do you enjoy saving an old Corvette? If it needs a birdcage and possibly a frame it doesn't make sense financially.

 

How did you determine that? Big block engines were installed in all sorts of cars and and trucks, how do you know that this engine was built specifically for any Corvette?

The vast majority of BB engines went into low perf vehicles, some with barely 300HP. That's gross HP, so probably 250ish net HP.

You've made about 10 leaps of logic so far and are now thinking with your lower brain which will cause you to make bad decisions.

 

Yea, thinking with the lower head has always been my downfall......
The stamp in front of the valve cover upon closer inspection reads CE07785 0. So, one resource I found said this would be interpreted as a warranty replacement post 1969, with the 0 designating meaning made in 1970, the first 7 indicating it was made at Towanada plant, and the next four digits being a sequential production number 7850 of 7999. Is that possible? The bottom half of all the digits on the stamp are illegible, I'm pretty confident in the CE07785. 0, but it could also say 'Made in China' for all I know.....

 

The 0 after CE typically means that it was assembled in 1970. All GM big block engines of the era were built at the Tonawanda plant.

 

So despite your good advice, I bought this car anyways. Luckily for me, closer inspection in my garage, it's not nearly as bad as I thought. E windshield frame up by the T-bar roof will need to be replaced, but other than that, everything is solid enough to drive today and restore tomorrow. The issue in front of the rear wheels is limited to drivers side, no rust through frame, a few flakes on the outer rail. It's a big block car, designated by Z in ViN. The block is a 3963512, Serial number not matching car, it is warranty replacement CE077850. Discussing with previous owner, the block came from a 1972 Vette - not original to that car which was news to him - and it has the steel high performance crank.
The intake is correct to the 73 Vette year according to cast number 353015. I won't be pulling the engine apart for a while, need to save funds for complete resto in a couple,years. Will change the valve cover head gaskets this winter and get the rest of the info then.
The PO put in a new rad with supplemental electric fan, changed the alternator, and put on hooker headers and sidewinder pipes. The PO painted the car about 10 years ago, prior to that looks like it spent some time in British Racing Green and a darker yellow since it's original light yellow factory colour. The last paint job suffers from multiple cracks, flakes and bubbles, about 20, but it's fine for now. Rear chrome bumper is flawless, front flex bumper is solid but suffers from worst painting. It has factory air conditioning, but the pump and pulley was removed, but came with car, looks like it's seized. Power windows, power steering, power brakes. 3 speed auto trans.

The issues - trans doesn't step down shift.
Head lights don't activate with vacuum system. New lines, actuators, reservoir. Came with new but not installed headlight switch.
Runs hot. Better belt adjustment, and getting the supplemental fan to come on with key
Have dropped running temp by 30F.
Brakes are pretty spongy, came with new but uninstalled rear Calipers and pads.

Plan is to pick away at a few small things, drive for a couple summers and save $ for complete frame off resto.
Looking forward to leaning as I go, got a couple good books already, and this forum has been very valuable in sorting out belts.

Couple questions to begin.
First, anyone have and dyno info on a 1970 454 block, HP crank, and 275 HP intake? I'm assuming performance is going to be much closer to 275HP than the bigger numbers the older block and crank are capable of.
Second, has anyone aware of an aftermarket solution (or a home grown variety) of taking the double air cleaner inlet to a cooler air source by the front dam or wheel wells?
Third - and better guesses on that date code picture? Since the CE number puts it at 1970, I can see I 19 0, but not even sure if I'm looking at it right side up (I think it's upside down in photo).

Many more questions to follow, thanks!

Cheers
Shawn

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This engine was not a warranty engine for the 1972 Corvette either. It wouldn't have sat arounf over two years waiting.........

Being that the engine was assembled in 1970, it was built most probably as a short block for a '68 or '69 who knows what kind of truck or car that was still under warranty, or a crate assembly again for unknown purpose.

Speculating what sort of power the engine makes is futile. Have you figured out whether it's a 427 or a 454?

 

Good point. So it had been previously installed elsewhere, as in, this is at a minimum the third vehicle it has been installed in! To determine if it's a 454, one would find a small weight on the inside of the crank pulley, correct? Did that date code picture reveal anything to you?

 

So the three groove fan/pump pulley has no weights front or. Back, the 2 groove crank pulley has no weights on front, and has a stamped number 39x9238, guessing that's a part number, seems yo be interchangeable with the 427 and 454s. So final answer needs to wait until rebuild?
In the meantime, what a blast to drive. I'm wearing out the back tires at an alarming rate, but oh well, boys and toys.