ok.... I know what the problem is... just don't know why or how???

ok.... what I have:

A siganaw stock style pump with 2 return lines in the can.
I run a Rac-n-Pinion from Steeroids, and a Hydroboost braking system.

What is happening.... no squeal or noise,,, just stops working after about 2 miles... then no brakes and no steering... power that is...

Now if you rev the engine you seem to feel a minimal amount of help...

Here is what I have found: I have taken the pump off... 3 times now.... and you have 3 pieces, from outside in... main fitting, control valve, spring....

when I unscrew the main fitting, usually the control valve would be pushed out via the spring...

BUT for some reason,,, and i can not find any cantonments, the control valve stays stuck down????? i push it down a little with a screwdriver and ... bang.. pops right out,,, and works again!!!! but why is it sticking down????

I called Borgason, and they told me the further down the regulator is pushed the less pressure the pump makes... so when it gets stuck down.... no pressure?!?!?!

but why????

 

After a couple of P/S pump failures for different reasons I upgraded to a KRC P/S pump. Nice piece, found it at a circle track speed shop on the shelf, stock item. Also running Steeroids but with manual brake. T

 

Yes, that flow control valve (plunger) should slide easily in the pump bore against the spring. If the valve sticks, you will have a definate lack of power assist because nearly all the flow is being recirculated back inside the pump and not out to your rack & pinion gear and hydroboost.

Why is the valve sticking? I don't know the facts around your system. Here are some possibilities:
1. Old cruddy power steering fluid sometimes results in a varnish type coating on power steering parts.
2. Always handle the control valve (plunger) with much care. It has a very precision outside diameter. If you must hold it in a vise, use wood inserts on the jaws to prevent any damage to the valve.
3. Chips from components (gear, hydroboost, pump, hoses, etc) get flushed through the system and cause stickiness.
4. Poorly remanufactured power steering pump. Look at control valve for chips, dings, burrs, etc. It definately should not stick when you push on it against the spring.
5. Make sure that the valve is inserted correctly. First the spring, then the flow control valve with the hex screw and screen end going into the pump bore first.

Jim

 

Sounds like somethings binding.... This is one of these cases were it would be less costly and time consuming to just replace it. You can get a rebuilt pump without a housing for under $50.

I dont think the gm style pumps are normally that unreliable myself.

My c4 had the "morning sickness" issue with the steering rack system because GM tried to go cheap with aluminum on an internal wear component designed to be steel and my pump delt with all the aluminum filings for the first 12 years I had it until I bought a new rack.

 

I have seen this valve stuck down now 3 times!!! each and every time i look for what is causing it... I see nothing... nothing nothing!!! AAAGGHHHh1!!!... but never the less, its stuck somehow.. 3 different pumps now... all of them with the stuck plunger... and each one, just take a screw driver , push it in a little more, then it releases?!?!!?!? like wtf?!?!?!!? royal purple synthetic ps fluid,,, and each time a whole new flush of fluid???? and it still happens...

that is the only thing i can think of is contaminates in the fluid, but i can not see or find any???

piece 6 stays stuck down after about 2 miles of driving... the last time i replaced the pump (yesterday) i paid a shop to do it... 3 reasons, 1they said they would bleed the system, and they do have the equipment for this.... 2 I'm getting burned out..... 3 my wife is defiantly burned out.. of me living in the garage.

almost 2 months down because of this...and i have put in BOTH new and rebuilt pumps

 

can you show me? i understand, after doing much research last night, that the pumps we run take as much as 15hp!!!!

And the new pumps take as little as 3hp....

The reason is volume, our stock pumps are something like 4 time the volume as the new units, most just recirculated back through the pump.

 

4th pump stuck?!?!?!?!?

Anyone have any ideas???

 

Typically the Saginaw P type pumps work very well with various different power steering fluids. I have no information that "Royal Purple" PS fluid would cause any problems. Having said this, the power steering fluid available at GM dealerships (89020661) was specifically formulated to work with the Saginaw power steering pumps.

Since you have tried different pumps (both remanufactured and new) it is hard to believe that all three pumps from different sources could have sticking flow control plungers.

It may be a long shot, but I would try the GM power steering fluid.

One last thought. If you had a pump (right out of the box) can you remove the discharge fitting and poke the plunger? Do you think that it will stick? Can you try that trick at your supplier or with the next pump that is shipped to you?
Jim

 

thx Jim.... this problem sucks:-(

 

Could be. I picture royal people as high maintenance expensive types.

Some guy pushing royal purple to me yrs ago told me the price on the oil. I said im not royalty just a commoner no thanks.

 

Could be..... Ugh.... Another pump on... Flushed the system again....

Report back in a week... Or sooner if it goes south...

If it does go south, I think I am going to fabricate my own mounts and find a new style pump that will work and take a lot less hp anyway

 

Good luck maybe you will finally get a break its just the fluid. What you went through on the fuel injection after they sold you some bad parts had to be very aggravating.

 

I had a flat on a motorcycle along time ago within about 100 miles from home. I used a second motorcycle on the trip to run to a friends house to borrow his pickup. it was a 73 chevy with a tired 350 so he had this 409 truck engine he had put in the pickup had to fabricate his own pulleys to make it work. Well before l left he did not tell me he had just stabbed the dist had not even checked the timing with a light. After driving up to get the motorcycle on the way back it was overheating. I advanced the dist without a light some it quit over heating, Same problem you were having after you drove your car a ways it would finally build up to much heat from retarded timing. That's why i told you to ... Rule out if your timing was right ... before buying the latest greatest fans. I could not believe with all you had to cool with in So- Cal in June it could not be that hot where anything could overheat lol.

 

Aggravation???:r ofl: omg... to the point I finally paid someone else to change the last pump... not because I could not.... just getting burned out on the whole thing :toe tap:
Even Oxana was pushing me to just get a C7 and be done with it... she's tired of me living in the garage, but we did a lot this year... the Vettes 427 and the jeep JK's Hemi install, both at the same time.. and both a bucket of work... But if I can get some good quality time behind the wheel, a few weeks on the track, and a few weeks out in the canyons or cursing with Oxana... and I will be happy again... but its been over a year now from when I snapped the 383 crank.... ugh....


yea... timing is such an important thing for heat I learned,, thx...

But I am going to get some brushless fans... they are a lot more efficient and do a much better job,,, and there is a company out there that has them, made in the USA and about 40% less than Spall..

 

Wether or not this pump goes south, I am going to get a new style GM pump, and have Danny and Chris fabricate me up an aluminum bracket so as to mount it in the same place as the Siganaw pump. our pumps suck from 15-18hp, whereas the new style pumps take as little as 3-5hp.... that is as much as 15 hp to free up??!?! wow

there is a company out there that Terry6T6roadster above posted about, but it is $1000, nice unit though.... But I bet I can do that for 1/3rd the price.

 

The KRC pump also has a mounting adapter available for less than $40. I'll try to send a pict of my mount & pump later today. T

 

I don't have actual hard data but I always heard that Saginaw power steering pumps required roughly 1/4 horsepower when being driven straight down the road. The pumps would be operating against about 50 psi backpressure.

Making most kinds of steering maneuvers while driving; i.e. changing lanes, making slow speed turns, etc required only another 1/2 horsepower or less. Only when the pump needed maximum pressure (i.e. car stopped, foot brake applied, and rapidly steering near full lock) would the pump require several horsepower to move the front tires on a hard stationary surface. (It may have been 10 to 15 horsepower but I just don't have the data.)

I don't think the type of Saginaw pump would make much difference. There was a small Saginaw pump (we called it the TC pump) that had a ball bearing supported driveshaft rather than a bushing. That pump was probably just a bit more efficient.

For the most part, the hydraulic power steering pump doesn't rob much horsepower in normal driving situations.

Jim

 

They have done tests on extremely under powered engines where they disconnected the belts one at a time from things like power steering, alternator, even the water pump. No difference in there time slips. They even took the manual fuel pump off used electric trying to make a difference none.

If your engine is running cool why spend money for different fans. Your wife is probably getting tired of constantly dumping money into the car already.

 

I bought the Steeroids rack for my '70. I'm not ready to install it yet, but I am planning to use the newer Gen II type PS pump. There are two types of pumps a high flow and a low flow. I will try the low flow pump.

Here is a list of parts I've saved on my Summit Wish List:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uis-8060300

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3964

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-340204

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3966

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-340201

 

I read this in an article somewhere (about the hp loss) posted by one of the car magazines... I'm trying to find it???

that is good info to know... thx


if you are running both the hydro boost and power steering as I, and run if hard like on the track like I do....I would go with the high volume unit.