68 big block starter problems
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Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 48
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From: Memphis TN
68 big block starter problems
I have a 68 with a 454 big block (originally a 427). About 6 months ago it made a horrible sound so as I inspected and, long story short, i needed to replace the starter. This starter was an aftermarket mini-high torque starter and I decided to replace it with an original.
The new starter seemed to be working great. It had a loud winning sound on crank but i figured that with no grinding noise, the sound was probably just the way those original starters sounded.
The other day I went to start it and there was a horrible grinding noise. I thought maybe a bolt came loose again. Nope. Tried to start it again and that grinding noise came again. I pulled the starter and sure enough, I'm grinding the flywheel teeth.
After some research I have come to realize that the winning sound on crank is because the pinion was too far away from the flywheel. The problem I'm having is that I never used any shims but it seems I'm still not close enough to the fly. How do I fix this problem? Everything I've read suggest taking out shims but there are none to remove, the starter is snug right up to the block.
The new starter seemed to be working great. It had a loud winning sound on crank but i figured that with no grinding noise, the sound was probably just the way those original starters sounded.
The other day I went to start it and there was a horrible grinding noise. I thought maybe a bolt came loose again. Nope. Tried to start it again and that grinding noise came again. I pulled the starter and sure enough, I'm grinding the flywheel teeth.
After some research I have come to realize that the winning sound on crank is because the pinion was too far away from the flywheel. The problem I'm having is that I never used any shims but it seems I'm still not close enough to the fly. How do I fix this problem? Everything I've read suggest taking out shims but there are none to remove, the starter is snug right up to the block.
Last edited by Davpmars; Dec 11, 2014 at 09:22 AM.
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Joined: May 2006
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I believe you can accomplish that by inserting a partial shim on the outside bolt only that will angle the starter closer to the flywheel or the starter nose is incorrectly machined.
http://www.marinemechanic.com/site/page169.html
http://www.marinemechanic.com/site/page169.html
Last edited by MelWff; Dec 11, 2014 at 11:49 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
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From: Taylor Michigan
Never use shims, it places the starter AWAY from the flywheel, not closer....a little known fact is that the starter almost always stops in the same position .........Cranking attempts just make it worse and you probably should fix the problem with either a ring gear if 4 speed or a flex plate if a automatic
ring gears are about 20 and flexplates 30
nothing wrong with the starter either
but whatever
ring gears are about 20 and flexplates 30
nothing wrong with the starter either
but whatever
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
This may be a shot in the dark, but make sure you are using the correct SAE bolts. I had a small block that I installed a mini starter in. Every few months the bolts would back out and the starter would jump around, even cracked the nose once. Come to find out I was using metric bolts. They thread in just fine but had a taper on the top that was bottoming out in one of the blind holes. The SAE bolt was flat topped and allowed for proper torque. Just a shot in the dark.....
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 48
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From: Memphis TN
Never use shims, it places the starter AWAY from the flywheel, not closer....a little known fact is that the starter almost always stops in the same position .........Cranking attempts just make it worse and you probably should fix the problem with either a ring gear if 4 speed or a flex plate if a automatic
ring gears are about 20 and flexplates 30
nothing wrong with the starter either
but whatever
ring gears are about 20 and flexplates 30
nothing wrong with the starter either
but whatever
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 150
Likes: 8
From: Pelham Alabama
I had a similar problem with my 1969 427. The only way to get rid of the sound was to replace both the flywheel and replace the gear on the starter. I installed it with no shims and it works like a champ.
Definitely a PITA to have to pull the tranny, but it worked.
Sum
Definitely a PITA to have to pull the tranny, but it worked.
Sum
Pro
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 699
Likes: 46
From: Charlotte NC
I don't see the pics but in my experience , shims are NEVER needed. Unless you've alteted something a GM starter will bolt to a Chevy block and align to a GM flywheel every time. It does however sound like you need a new ring gear. If it is a manual at least you could flip it, but still gotta come out...
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Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 43
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From: Ohio
Experienced this with my 68. It's the teeth on the flywheel ring gear, as stated above.
Mine was caused by the previous owner installing the shims. The 327 had the starter bolting on vertically, but I thought the 454 was the horizontal (modern) style bolts?? Regardless, I would not recommnd shims. Shims will only make the problem worse (which was also stated above).
I pulled the engine and replaced the flywheel. Yes, I could have replaced the ring gear, but for me it was simpler to replace the flywheel. It wasn't bad. Pulled the engine on Friday, put it back on Saturday, drove it Saturday evening.
Good luck!
Mine was caused by the previous owner installing the shims. The 327 had the starter bolting on vertically, but I thought the 454 was the horizontal (modern) style bolts?? Regardless, I would not recommnd shims. Shims will only make the problem worse (which was also stated above).
I pulled the engine and replaced the flywheel. Yes, I could have replaced the ring gear, but for me it was simpler to replace the flywheel. It wasn't bad. Pulled the engine on Friday, put it back on Saturday, drove it Saturday evening.
Good luck!
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
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From: Memphis TN
I did finally fix my problem. The teeth on the Fly were not so torn up that I couldn't continue to use them. Just a small portion of the tip of the teeth had been torn off.
I was able to add about 140 thousands of an inch in half shims to the outside mounting bolt which tilted the motor towards the Fly just enough to make a good tight connection. My car now sounds better than ever when cranking.
I was able to add about 140 thousands of an inch in half shims to the outside mounting bolt which tilted the motor towards the Fly just enough to make a good tight connection. My car now sounds better than ever when cranking.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
I did finally fix my problem. The teeth on the Fly were not so torn up that I couldn't continue to use them. Just a small portion of the tip of the teeth had been torn off.
I was able to add about 140 thousands of an inch in half shims to the outside mounting bolt which tilted the motor towards the Fly just enough to make a good tight connection. My car now sounds better than ever when cranking.
I was able to add about 140 thousands of an inch in half shims to the outside mounting bolt which tilted the motor towards the Fly just enough to make a good tight connection. My car now sounds better than ever when cranking.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 699
Likes: 46
From: Charlotte NC
Yikes. I know sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do....but I would think you may be doing more harm. The starter endures a crapload of force and now its cocked in there. Might shear off a bolt or worse. I would fix it properly with a new flywheel or a better rigged idea might be to have a machine shop mill an eighth off the nose housing - but then in the future it'll need shimming if you ever change the flywheel. .010" or .020" under 1 bolt maybe but .140" is a HUGE number IMHO.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 48
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From: Birmingham Alabama
Reman starters from NAPA state that a min. 8,9, volts measured at starter while cranking. If you have a voltage drop, the solenoid will not fully engage. If you add shims it will only add to the problem.