Borgeson dead center - play in wheel?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,797
Likes: 608
From: Dallas Georgia
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C3 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
Borgeson dead center - play in wheel?
I don't remember the steering play feeling this bad before but I have made a number of changes to my car so I wanted to get general feedback.
I just put all new suspension on my 71 (Ridetech coilovers) so every component up front is brand new, no worn bushings, etc.)
I do have 18x10" wheels up front which could be contributing to some of the feedback but basically I have a very large dead spot in the steering wheel. I do have a tilt/tele column which was completely rebuilt about 1.5 years ago. When I turn the steering wheel, while stopped in the garage, I can watch the shaft turn equally with the steering wheel so it isn't like the wheel is turning and the steering shaft has any play. There is no rag joint as a universal joint connects the column to the box, so that piece is not worn either.
Here is a video showing how much play I have in the steering wheel
I just put all new suspension on my 71 (Ridetech coilovers) so every component up front is brand new, no worn bushings, etc.)
I do have 18x10" wheels up front which could be contributing to some of the feedback but basically I have a very large dead spot in the steering wheel. I do have a tilt/tele column which was completely rebuilt about 1.5 years ago. When I turn the steering wheel, while stopped in the garage, I can watch the shaft turn equally with the steering wheel so it isn't like the wheel is turning and the steering shaft has any play. There is no rag joint as a universal joint connects the column to the box, so that piece is not worn either.
Here is a video showing how much play I have in the steering wheel
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
I have the Borgeson box and there is no play on center, so something is going on...
1) Have you double checked that when the steering wheel is straight, the box is exactly in the center of travel? The box is only tight in a narrow range in the center.
2) Have someone wiggle the steering wheel while you check under the car where the play is. It may not be the box.
3) With the wheels off the ground (engine off) you should feel the steering get tight right on center. There should be a noticeable increase in drag.
If 3) shows no increase in drag on center you can tighten the set screw on top of the box. But only do that if all the other tests come up negative. Over-tightening the set screw will shorten the life of the box.
1) Have you double checked that when the steering wheel is straight, the box is exactly in the center of travel? The box is only tight in a narrow range in the center.
2) Have someone wiggle the steering wheel while you check under the car where the play is. It may not be the box.
3) With the wheels off the ground (engine off) you should feel the steering get tight right on center. There should be a noticeable increase in drag.
If 3) shows no increase in drag on center you can tighten the set screw on top of the box. But only do that if all the other tests come up negative. Over-tightening the set screw will shorten the life of the box.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,200
Likes: 4,187
From: Kannapolis NC
I put the Borgeson box on my 72 and if I turned my wheel as much as you did in the video, I'd be swapping lanes completely. Look underneath and verify where the play is, something may have come loose.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,797
Likes: 608
From: Dallas Georgia
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C3 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
I have the Borgeson box and there is no play on center, so something is going on...
1) Have you double checked that when the steering wheel is straight, the box is exactly in the center of travel? The box is only tight in a narrow range in the center.
2) Have someone wiggle the steering wheel while you check under the car where the play is. It may not be the box.
3) With the wheels off the ground (engine off) you should feel the steering get tight right on center. There should be a noticeable increase in drag.
If 3) shows no increase in drag on center you can tighten the set screw on top of the box. But only do that if all the other tests come up negative. Over-tightening the set screw will shorten the life of the box.
1) Have you double checked that when the steering wheel is straight, the box is exactly in the center of travel? The box is only tight in a narrow range in the center.
2) Have someone wiggle the steering wheel while you check under the car where the play is. It may not be the box.
3) With the wheels off the ground (engine off) you should feel the steering get tight right on center. There should be a noticeable increase in drag.
If 3) shows no increase in drag on center you can tighten the set screw on top of the box. But only do that if all the other tests come up negative. Over-tightening the set screw will shorten the life of the box.
As I turn the wheel, I can see the steering shaft moving the input shaft on the steering gear. I am just not getting the same output from the box as I am inputting. It is like a dead spot.
I don't remember now if this is the case but if the dead spot happens even when the wheel is turned (and all suspension components are in good order) would that be an indication that something is amiss in the box?
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
Sounds like you're off-center and then the shop compensated with the tie-rods to make it go straight.
With the wheels off the ground you can easily find the center of the box (where it gets tight). Remove the steering wheel and re-install so it is straight. Finally adjust the tie-rods to make the car go straight. As long as you turn each tie-rod the same amount you don't need another alignment.
With the wheels off the ground you can easily find the center of the box (where it gets tight). Remove the steering wheel and re-install so it is straight. Finally adjust the tie-rods to make the car go straight. As long as you turn each tie-rod the same amount you don't need another alignment.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 220
Likes: 17
From: Pasadena MD
I don't remember the steering play feeling this bad before but I have made a number of changes to my car so I wanted to get general feedback.
I just put all new suspension on my 71 (Ridetech coilovers) so every component up front is brand new, no worn bushings, etc.)
I do have 18x10" wheels up front which could be contributing to some of the feedback but basically I have a very large dead spot in the steering wheel. I do have a tilt/tele column which was completely rebuilt about 1.5 years ago. When I turn the steering wheel, while stopped in the garage, I can watch the shaft turn equally with the steering wheel so it isn't like the wheel is turning and the steering shaft has any play. There is no rag joint as a universal joint connects the column to the box, so that piece is not worn either.
Here is a video showing how much play I have in the steering wheel
YouTube
I just put all new suspension on my 71 (Ridetech coilovers) so every component up front is brand new, no worn bushings, etc.)
I do have 18x10" wheels up front which could be contributing to some of the feedback but basically I have a very large dead spot in the steering wheel. I do have a tilt/tele column which was completely rebuilt about 1.5 years ago. When I turn the steering wheel, while stopped in the garage, I can watch the shaft turn equally with the steering wheel so it isn't like the wheel is turning and the steering shaft has any play. There is no rag joint as a universal joint connects the column to the box, so that piece is not worn either.
Here is a video showing how much play I have in the steering wheel
YouTube
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,797
Likes: 608
From: Dallas Georgia
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C3 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
I initially posted that I wasn't sure what was going on, but then I watched my video a couple more times and saw it.
Right at the 6 second mark. I didn't catch it with my eye from below. The set screws were both tight, and the one on the otherside you can't see, was engaging the flat spot on the gear. I loosened everything, moved the u-joint and cinched it all back down. The dead spot is now gone.
Right at the 6 second mark. I didn't catch it with my eye from below. The set screws were both tight, and the one on the otherside you can't see, was engaging the flat spot on the gear. I loosened everything, moved the u-joint and cinched it all back down. The dead spot is now gone.
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Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
I initially posted that I wasn't sure what was going on, but then I watched my video a couple more times and saw it.
71 Corvette - Borgeson box dead spot follow up - YouTube
Right at the 6 second mark. I didn't catch it with my eye from below. The set screws were both tight, and the one on the otherside you can't see, was engaging the flat spot on the gear. I loosened everything, moved the u-joint and cinched it all back down. The dead spot is now gone.
71 Corvette - Borgeson box dead spot follow up - YouTube
Right at the 6 second mark. I didn't catch it with my eye from below. The set screws were both tight, and the one on the otherside you can't see, was engaging the flat spot on the gear. I loosened everything, moved the u-joint and cinched it all back down. The dead spot is now gone.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,459
Likes: 979
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
How was the steering with the borgeon box and how did the old girl do auto crossing?
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-11-years.html
Quick turn in, responsive, great control and it sounded bad-*** (although the video didn't capture that
).Beat the heck out of the tires, though...