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I've been reading about rusted birdcages here and elsewhere, and it's pretty scary stuff. Some of the photos are awful - paper thin frames that are flaking off rust, holes everywhere, not even remotely safe for a vehicle on the street. I wasn't aware of this issue until a few days ago, and it now seems I need to inspect my '82 before going ahead with some of the more expensive upgrades I had planned. The car obviously isn't as old as some, but it's older than any of my other Vettes at the time I owned them, and I have no history on it whatsoever.
All the threads I've read on this subject revolve around repair or replacement of the cage. None that I've found talk about things an owner can do to help preserve the existing cage, whatever its condition might be. I realize keeping your Vette in the garage and only bringing it out on sunny days is one approach, but that's not practical for everyone. For those of us that drive our cars frequently and can't worry too much about getting caught in a rainstorm, I'm hoping some of the more experienced owners here might have some input on this.
As I see it, there are two fundamental aspects to birdcage preservation. The first is to do everything possible to prevent water from entering. With that in mind, which specific parts would be involved if an owner wanted to renew this area of the car from time to time? I'm thinking about seals and such, maybe T-top weatherstripping and windshield molding. Personally, I wouldn't mind having the windshield pulled and reinstalled with new molding every 10 years if that's what's required to prevent leaks and rust. What about the rear glass (standard version, not CE) and door weatherstripping? Would that also be required to protect the cage? Anything else?
Second, assuming the birdcage is already rusty but not structurally compromised, what can be done to slow or stop the rust from spreading further? Will a rust converter work for this, and what would be the best way to apply it (short of stripping everything off the cage)? Could the converter maybe be atomized, say with a paint sprayer, and directed through a short tube into the interior of the cage? I'm thinking about a fine mist that would travel at least partway through the cage and settle on internal surfaces. If someone wanted to try this, where are the most easily accessible openings into the cage? Also, if rust converter were poured in at the top of the cage, would it find its way down to the bottom in the rocker areas?
I'm still trying to get over the fact that birdcage rust is so crippling for these cars, and I sure wish I'd known about it before I bought mine. I always thought the 'glass body made Vettes relatively immune to the ills of quarter panel and windshield rust that plague lesser cars like Novas and Mustangs. Now I realize these cars can be much worse. The rust is hidden underneath fiberglass that has to be stripped away to effect replacement, and this is obviously much more costly than welding in new panels on metal body vehicles. It's also much more difficult to assess the true condition of a used vehicle.
If anyone has any experience with methods for mitigating this issue, I'd sure like to hear about them.
I am also curios about this. I just replaced my header and "A" pillars. Now it is time to seal it all back up. When I took mine apart it looked like the valley under the header was filled with plumbers putty. Is that correct?
I have a 69 convertible.
I am also curios about this. I just replaced my header and "A" pillars. Now it is time to seal it all back up. When I took mine apart it looked like the valley under the header was filled with plumbers putty. Is that correct?
I have a 69 convertible.
i found putty like substance on my 82 when i did my A pillar weather strip
don't aim the water there when washing and forget about the rain
Applying putty incorrectly can make things worse. At one time someone did that on my car and that prevented some of the rain from exiting the windshield frame in the upper driver's side corner. Now I am having to replace the corner piece as it rusted a lot, but mine isn't near as bad as some of the stuff I have seen here.
Compared to some of the Mustangs, Camaros and Chevelles I've worked on they can have rust everywhere. It can be covered up pretty well too until it's media blasted.
If the car has been in TX most of the time and protected from the elements it should be in good shape. You can pull the kick panels and inspect there and also remove the windshield molding.
Here is my kick panel removed. Factory primer still looks good.
Yes, those mounts look really good. I would still want to add some sort of protection, just to slow the inevitable.
Doesn't anyone know the specific items up top that should be renewed periodically in order to stop water getting into the birdcage? I assume it starts with the T-top weatherstripping, but what else is needed?
I've been reading about rusted birdcages here and elsewhere, and it's pretty scary stuff. Some of the photos are awful - paper thin frames that are flaking off rust, holes everywhere, not even remotely safe for a vehicle on the street. I wasn't aware of this issue until a few days ago, and it now seems I need to inspect my '82 before going ahead with some of the more expensive upgrades I had planned. The car obviously isn't as old as some, but it's older than any of my other Vettes at the time I owned them, and I have no history on it whatsoever.
All the threads I've read on this subject revolve around repair or replacement of the cage. None that I've found talk about things an owner can do to help preserve the existing cage, whatever its condition might be. I realize keeping your Vette in the garage and only bringing it out on sunny days is one approach, but that's not practical for everyone. For those of us that drive our cars frequently and can't worry too much about getting caught in a rainstorm, I'm hoping some of the more experienced owners here might have some input on this.
As I see it, there are two fundamental aspects to birdcage preservation. The first is to do everything possible to prevent water from entering. With that in mind, which specific parts would be involved if an owner wanted to renew this area of the car from time to time? I'm thinking about seals and such, maybe T-top weatherstripping and windshield molding. Personally, I wouldn't mind having the windshield pulled and reinstalled with new molding every 10 years if that's what's required to prevent leaks and rust. What about the rear glass (standard version, not CE) and door weatherstripping? Would that also be required to protect the cage? Anything else?
Second, assuming the birdcage is already rusty but not structurally compromised, what can be done to slow or stop the rust from spreading further? Will a rust converter work for this, and what would be the best way to apply it (short of stripping everything off the cage)? Could the converter maybe be atomized, say with a paint sprayer, and directed through a short tube into the interior of the cage? I'm thinking about a fine mist that would travel at least partway through the cage and settle on internal surfaces. If someone wanted to try this, where are the most easily accessible openings into the cage? Also, if rust converter were poured in at the top of the cage, would it find its way down to the bottom in the rocker areas?
I'm still trying to get over the fact that birdcage rust is so crippling for these cars, and I sure wish I'd known about it before I bought mine. I always thought the 'glass body made Vettes relatively immune to the ills of quarter panel and windshield rust that plague lesser cars like Novas and Mustangs. Now I realize these cars can be much worse. The rust is hidden underneath fiberglass that has to be stripped away to effect replacement, and this is obviously much more costly than welding in new panels on metal body vehicles. It's also much more difficult to assess the true condition of a used vehicle.
If anyone has any experience with methods for mitigating this issue, I'd sure like to hear about them.
Well the bird cage is something that can really bring out your Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and render your C3 to lifetime project that never leaves the garage.
Ya know the bird cage itself is more of body structural support than any kinda occupant protection. U want real protection install a roll cage. And a roll cage will greatly strengthen any its attached to.
If u just want to stop the corrosion u need to scrape, pick and vac up the big stuff then apply a rust locker/converter like u can buy at the hardware store. I really like POR15 for a protective coating that's as tough as the steel itself. Only u can decide what needs to be sealed or drained.
I guess what I'm saying is don't think u need to do a frame off unless u really want to. Clean, coat, install a cage to keep it roadable if u want. Don't let OCD take away your fun. Hey its just a Chevy.
Compared to some of the Mustangs, Camaros and Chevelles I've worked on they can have rust everywhere. It can be covered up pretty well too until it's media blasted.
If the car has been in TX most of the time and protected from the elements it should be in good shape. You can pull the kick panels and inspect there and also remove the windshield molding.
Here is my kick panel removed. Factory primer still looks good.
Thats how mine looked, I still had everything flooded with "Mike Sanders" Grease... It is a mess to work with because the Grease/Wax mixture has to be hot and liquid when handeled (so it has to be heated up) and the applied with a pressure nozzle... In my opinion one of the best things arround. It never dries out and keeps moving in every crack there is. Especially when the Car is out in the Summer. Best for Hollow Frames etc. Not sure if this product is popular in the US, but in Europe it is one of the top products used to finish off and protect Oldtimer Restoration...
Just got my first ('69 coupe) Vette and mine also looks like that.
Obviously, I want to keep it from getting worse.
Would it be a good idea to first apply some Liquid Wrench type stuff, break the bolts loose and THEN cover it all in anti-rust preservative? (I happen to have Waxoyl on hand.)
Thanks,
Steve
That's cool. POR15 is certainly great stuff, and I've used it many times. But I'm just wondering if it won't hamper future (body off?) restoration work by being so damn strong when trying to remove those big bolts. Similarly, I'm wondering if it would be prudent to PB-Blast/Liquid-Wrench those big bolts BEFORE preserving that kick-panel area with POR15, Fluid-Film, Waxoyl or whatever.
Any thoughts?
I didn't POR15 the threads. I just coated those in some grease. This was all done fully disassembled. I'm really not all that worried about bolts rusting because, now that "I" own the car, I know it's going to be kept dry 99.99% of the time, and those can always be changed. The POR15 was really about putting some kind of surface coating on there after the rust removal. Good luck.
Pulling the windshield may not be a bad idea. Treating with ospho won't hurt.
And never ever under any circumstances leave your hatches off or top down in the rain. If water gets on the dashboard it will find it's way everywhere . A couple screw ups is all it takes.
12-15-2015, 08:07 PM
Birdcage Preservation
