Piston ring break in thoughts and time
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 9,432
Likes: 124
Oil is not the issue,
Have the engine builder explain what in the synthetic oil will prevent the rings from seating,
synthetics have a more uniform molecular structure along with fewer additives, the ability to handle temp swings to the extreme better than dino's and less volatility.
what about this will cause rings not to seat?
the only true way to find the problem is to take it apart and inspect it.
a leak down will tell you to some extent what condition the compression ring is in but will not tell you anything about the oil control ring
Neal
Have the engine builder explain what in the synthetic oil will prevent the rings from seating,
synthetics have a more uniform molecular structure along with fewer additives, the ability to handle temp swings to the extreme better than dino's and less volatility.
what about this will cause rings not to seat?
the only true way to find the problem is to take it apart and inspect it.
a leak down will tell you to some extent what condition the compression ring is in but will not tell you anything about the oil control ring
Neal
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,226
Likes: 643
From: Orange County Ca
Don't all/most new cars come from the factory with synthetic oil?
Did the builder tell you not to use synthetic oil?
I think it would be a good idea to try changing the oil and running it hard and hot, and if it doesn't help, I would suspect something wrong with the build.
Did the builder tell you not to use synthetic oil?
I think it would be a good idea to try changing the oil and running it hard and hot, and if it doesn't help, I would suspect something wrong with the build.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 9,432
Likes: 124
Make sure you don't have a pcv issue or something simple. Fords are notorious for the innards of their valves coming apart, and that would suck quite a bit of oil also.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 121
From: Sulphur LA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19,'24, '25
Didn’t mean to insinuate that you couldn’t trouble shoot as I’ve followed your builds on the form for a good while now and see you know your way around vehicles.
I’ve spent countless hours working on and testing oils and ring fit on outboard drag motors and I can tell you that as it pertains to oil the rings will seat (not exactly the same but similar).
Depending on the type of ring they may also have a coating to help with the wear in process.
It would be interesting to see the wear pattern on the face of the rings and on the bottom of the ring along with the ring land, you can learn a lot about the ring in these areas.
Have you pulled the plugs to see if something sticks out on an individual cylinder?
Neal
I’ve spent countless hours working on and testing oils and ring fit on outboard drag motors and I can tell you that as it pertains to oil the rings will seat (not exactly the same but similar).
Depending on the type of ring they may also have a coating to help with the wear in process.
It would be interesting to see the wear pattern on the face of the rings and on the bottom of the ring along with the ring land, you can learn a lot about the ring in these areas.
Have you pulled the plugs to see if something sticks out on an individual cylinder?
Neal
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Just run it hard for a bit they will seat
How many new cars come with Syn in them they are fine.
As said put a load on it then let it decel or engine brake (not going into OD)a number of times
How many new cars come with Syn in them they are fine.
As said put a load on it then let it decel or engine brake (not going into OD)a number of times
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
I forgot to mention that a friend and I just rebuilt his 5.4l 3v in his 05' Ford F-150 and it used a quart in its first thousand......
He dropped it and refilled.....ran it hard and it is using nothing now.
Jebby
He dropped it and refilled.....ran it hard and it is using nothing now.
Jebby
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Don't all/most new cars come from the factory with synthetic oil?
Did the builder tell you not to use synthetic oil?
I think it would be a good idea to try changing the oil and running it hard and hot, and if it doesn't help, I would suspect something wrong with the build.
Did the builder tell you not to use synthetic oil?
I think it would be a good idea to try changing the oil and running it hard and hot, and if it doesn't help, I would suspect something wrong with the build.
Didn’t mean to insinuate that you couldn’t trouble shoot as I’ve followed your builds on the form for a good while now and see you know your way around vehicles.
I’ve spent countless hours working on and testing oils and ring fit on outboard drag motors and I can tell you that as it pertains to oil the rings will seat (not exactly the same but similar).
Depending on the type of ring they may also have a coating to help with the wear in process.
It would be interesting to see the wear pattern on the face of the rings and on the bottom of the ring along with the ring land, you can learn a lot about the ring in these areas.
Have you pulled the plugs to see if something sticks out on an individual cylinder?
Neal
I’ve spent countless hours working on and testing oils and ring fit on outboard drag motors and I can tell you that as it pertains to oil the rings will seat (not exactly the same but similar).
Depending on the type of ring they may also have a coating to help with the wear in process.
It would be interesting to see the wear pattern on the face of the rings and on the bottom of the ring along with the ring land, you can learn a lot about the ring in these areas.
Have you pulled the plugs to see if something sticks out on an individual cylinder?
Neal
If i do have to rip it back out, the first thing i want to see is the ring pattern..
good to know... thx, hope this goes this way also...need my truck
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Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
as posted the oil consumption should slow down, when new my silverado uised a lot of oil first 5k mi. Then slowed way down. Its old now so it uses around a at every thousand some of it leakage. Wouldnt sweat it unless it gets real excessive
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Adams... Very good people, I am not worried a bit about them backing it if it is bad.. thats the good part.. Just need my truck:-) just put the Hemi jeep JK in the paint shop, and my sons are making new front and rear bumpers with a very cool lighting design in the bumpers.. KC gave us the the lights from a sponsorship in one of our Baja 500 races.. very cool LED lights..
Last edited by pauldana; Jan 15, 2016 at 10:47 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
going to run it hard for 5K and then determine oil consumption, if bad, its coming out... but I will do the standard test as I hate sated earlier in this thread..
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,000
Likes: 299
From: New York
I hate to say it paul , but you are surprising me . Because your a smart guy and I know you know the answer to this ..
You know brake in is always conventional oil , I know you know this.
At this point I agree with your builder , you messed up. I would go buy Kmart oil and pound that motor for a good 45 minutes up and down in low gears and find inclines to load it up in high gears.
I might even let it walk up to 230 in temp .. Not force it but i would surely work the **** out of that motor and if temps rise so be it .
Not an attack I am sure you know that but I just want to be clear it aint ..
You know brake in is always conventional oil , I know you know this.
At this point I agree with your builder , you messed up. I would go buy Kmart oil and pound that motor for a good 45 minutes up and down in low gears and find inclines to load it up in high gears.
I might even let it walk up to 230 in temp .. Not force it but i would surely work the **** out of that motor and if temps rise so be it .
Not an attack I am sure you know that but I just want to be clear it aint ..
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
I hate to say it paul , but you are surprising me . Because your a smart guy and I know you know the answer to this ..
You know brake in is always conventional oil , I know you know this.
At this point I agree with your builder , you messed up. I would go buy Kmart oil and pound that motor for a good 45 minutes up and down in low gears and find inclines to load it up in high gears.
I might even let it walk up to 230 in temp .. Not force it but i would surely work the **** out of that motor and if temps rise so be it .
Not an attack I am sure you know that but I just want to be clear it aint ..
You know brake in is always conventional oil , I know you know this.
At this point I agree with your builder , you messed up. I would go buy Kmart oil and pound that motor for a good 45 minutes up and down in low gears and find inclines to load it up in high gears.
I might even let it walk up to 230 in temp .. Not force it but i would surely work the **** out of that motor and if temps rise so be it .
Not an attack I am sure you know that but I just want to be clear it aint ..
Ya know...Once I left the flat tappet community I just left behind the idea of dino oils... I broke in my vet with Dino, I remember... don't know why i did it... just thinking modern factory stock motor, and you never here from the dealerships not to go out on put in synthetic oil, and I have known many to do this without harm... there is obviously something different in the process of the new engine builds and a rebuild to stock... if this ring problem really hold water that is...
Another problem is RPM... the Vette sees 6500-7000 all the time,,, runs best at 2500-3500 for cruising. the truck on the other hand sees maybe 2500-3000 at times.. but usually lumbers around town and the freeway at around 1500-2000... a lot lower and no had engine back pressure slowdowns dos to the auto transmission and the running RPM's being so low..
So.. got the pennzoil in it.. OD off, and running it like a 16 your old want be racer kid.... lets see if that makes a change before i start the real trouble shooting....
Today I replace the proportioning valve on the vette with an adjustable one with a Knee break from Wildwood...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,632
Likes: 112
From: Great Plains Iowa
Bon Ami Trick For Lapping Piston Rings To Cylinder Walls
My '71's 454" has been using about a quart of oil every 250 to 300 miles ever since I installed higher compression pistons and new rings this last summer. I had barely honed the cylinders and they ended up getting polished smooth before the oil rings had a chance to fully seat.
This morning I mixed half a can of AJAX cleanser with 12 ounces of ATF then ran 1-1/2 ounces of the sloppy slurry mixture down each of the runners and into the cylinders with the spark plugs out and HEI disconnected. I spun the engine over at least 1000+ times to lap the rings to the cylinder walls then stuck the plugs back in and fired it.
Naturally it belched blue smoke for about 30 minutes but finally the smoke lessened to the point where I see no smoke at all (I could always see a slight haze even after warmed) so hopefully the oil burning will cease.
When I was building engines as my profession back in the '70's and '80's I often had to use a slurry of Bon Ami and oil to lap the chrome rings in Ford Industrial engines that ran on propane because without the lapping process they would continually oil-foul spark plugs. If you ever have a new or rebuilt engine that uses an excessive amount of oil remember this easy-to-do Bon Ami trick.
This morning I mixed half a can of AJAX cleanser with 12 ounces of ATF then ran 1-1/2 ounces of the sloppy slurry mixture down each of the runners and into the cylinders with the spark plugs out and HEI disconnected. I spun the engine over at least 1000+ times to lap the rings to the cylinder walls then stuck the plugs back in and fired it.
Naturally it belched blue smoke for about 30 minutes but finally the smoke lessened to the point where I see no smoke at all (I could always see a slight haze even after warmed) so hopefully the oil burning will cease.
When I was building engines as my profession back in the '70's and '80's I often had to use a slurry of Bon Ami and oil to lap the chrome rings in Ford Industrial engines that ran on propane because without the lapping process they would continually oil-foul spark plugs. If you ever have a new or rebuilt engine that uses an excessive amount of oil remember this easy-to-do Bon Ami trick.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
I would use dino oil for the first 100 or so miles so the rings can seat. Follow the ring seating procedure. Change the oil and run dino oil again or synthetic, it doesn't matter once the rings are seated.
Had a 1976 L-82, 4-sp
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,338
Likes: 1,213
From: Some days your the dog and some days your the hydrant.
Royal Canadian Navy
Anyone. Most new HP cars come with synthetic oil afaik. So whats different with their breaking in of of the rings?
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,632
Likes: 112
From: Great Plains Iowa
Lapping New Piston Rings
On a freshly assembled short block the lapping process will leave the cylinder walls a light grey color. Cleansers use powdered quartz and/or powdered feldspar as their cutting agents and when mixed with ATF into a sloppy slurry the mixture will adhere to the cylinder walls. Its always best to lap the rings in any engine with chrome rings that will be run on propane or natural gas because without the lapping the chrome rings will never seat.