Serpentine Conversion with 3rd gen Fbody mounts question
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 130
Likes: 10
Serpentine Conversion with 3rd gen Fbody mounts question
So considering doing a serpentine drive on my new 406 I am building and was looking into the GM brackets. Can anyone ID wwhat this is and what its for? I want a clean look, any reason it needs to stay? Maybe its obvious in person but...
Last edited by 10Seconds918; Feb 5, 2016 at 05:43 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 101
Likes: 9
From: Paris, FRANCE
it's the belt tensioner and you need it.
if you want something pretty, I think you should start with another system (billet ?).
this one is functionnal and reliable, but as most OEM parts, it's not designed to look good imo.
if you want something pretty, I think you should start with another system (billet ?).
this one is functionnal and reliable, but as most OEM parts, it's not designed to look good imo.
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 44
From: East TN
If you want no tensioner it will cost about 3+ times as much as the Fbody.
http://marchperformance.com/chevy/ch...sive-kits.html
Here's a picture of mine from and 89 Firebird donor during my build. I used some aluminum paint, March underdrive pulleys and Victor Jr. reverse flow water pump to dress it up.
http://marchperformance.com/chevy/ch...sive-kits.html
Here's a picture of mine from and 89 Firebird donor during my build. I used some aluminum paint, March underdrive pulleys and Victor Jr. reverse flow water pump to dress it up.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 664
Likes: 89
From: Marysville Ohio
If clean and functional is what you are after, the GM setup is good IMO. I sourced one from a 92 Camaro off of ebay/craigslist and am very happy with it. With some patience, you can do the whole system at a reasonable cost.
The amount of work you put into clean up and painting will obviously impact the overall look. The piece you pointed out is required for keeping tension on the belt, as Mike80 says.
The amount of work you put into clean up and painting will obviously impact the overall look. The piece you pointed out is required for keeping tension on the belt, as Mike80 says.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 130
Likes: 10
Yeah, I see it now with that pic, makes sense, just couldnt tell in the top pic.
Its 900 bucks from summit with all new accessories, which is basically 350 just for the brackets with out. Seems like its only a deal if I can find it and pull off a car.
Its 900 bucks from summit with all new accessories, which is basically 350 just for the brackets with out. Seems like its only a deal if I can find it and pull off a car.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 664
Likes: 89
From: Marysville Ohio
All the serp systems I have looked at are pretty expensive new - By comparison, $900 new isn't the worst price out there - but you should be able to do it much cheaper if you look for a used system.
I have about $400-$450 total in mine, including an unused AC Delco AC compressor that I found off of craigslist for $100.
It takes time and patience but can be done for a reasonable cost.
I have about $400-$450 total in mine, including an unused AC Delco AC compressor that I found off of craigslist for $100.
It takes time and patience but can be done for a reasonable cost.
Last edited by cooper9811; Feb 3, 2016 at 08:39 AM.
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Instructor
Joined: Apr 2015
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Ok, couple follow ups, Looks like most people just delete the smog pump and dont add the smog delete pulley, are you going to a shorter belt, if so what belt are you using?
Second, are you guys using the 3rd gen AC compressor with this or does the c3 one match up, or maybe they are the same? My car was missing AC when I got it so I have to buy the compressor anyways, so if I am better off, I will just go with the 3rd gen since it was 'intended' for this setup.
Which water pump are you guys using with this, I see edelbrock makes a bunch of options and I guess my google-fu is weak here. Just a 3rd gen Camaro performance one? If you have a part number, I would be very happy.
Why the underdrive pulleys? Did the other pulleys not fit right? And I see March offers 3 types of pulleys now too, which did you go with.
Anyone keep a mechanical fan on it, I see from other posts online that the mechanical fan from a 1996 Jeep Cherokee bolts right up and fits. I am leaning this way so I dont have to tackle electric fan swap at the same time.
Second, are you guys using the 3rd gen AC compressor with this or does the c3 one match up, or maybe they are the same? My car was missing AC when I got it so I have to buy the compressor anyways, so if I am better off, I will just go with the 3rd gen since it was 'intended' for this setup.
Which water pump are you guys using with this, I see edelbrock makes a bunch of options and I guess my google-fu is weak here. Just a 3rd gen Camaro performance one? If you have a part number, I would be very happy.
Why the underdrive pulleys? Did the other pulleys not fit right? And I see March offers 3 types of pulleys now too, which did you go with.
Anyone keep a mechanical fan on it, I see from other posts online that the mechanical fan from a 1996 Jeep Cherokee bolts right up and fits. I am leaning this way so I dont have to tackle electric fan swap at the same time.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
I got a serp system off a '88-91 vette from Carlisle for about 200 bux total, including the reverse drive pump.....some 20 years ago, and so it's been fine since, except a pump replacement....
can't swear to prices today, but look around.....I dunno about other car sources, and I am a junkyard hotrodder for some decades now.....
can't swear to prices today, but look around.....I dunno about other car sources, and I am a junkyard hotrodder for some decades now.....
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Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 664
Likes: 89
From: Marysville Ohio
In the interest of full disclosure, the GM setup does require some adjustments - so expect some work necessary to make all the parts come together. I would still do it again - none of these are big problems, just a nice little list of "to-do's" that you may want to be aware of.
Here is a summary of what I dealt with:
Here is a summary of what I dealt with:
- I switched over to the Camaro power steering pump (not required, I just needed a pump anyway and I got one with the correct pulley) - If you do this, take the inlet fitting from your old PS pump and put it on the new one, so your PS hoses still bolt up.
- I had to experiment with water neck and radiator hose combinations to avoid rubbing on the belt. I found on that pointed straight forward and looked for a suitable hose at a local parts store.
- The lower rad hose is the stock hose, but required trimming and may sit tight against the lower cross member.
- You will have to convert to the later style alternator (CS130 or similar). I used a pre made pigtail from Summit to ease the conversion.
- I used the water pump for a 92 Z28.
- If you have AC, you may need a later pancake compressor. I was not able to convert my stock C3 pancake compressor to a serpentine pulley. Going with a later AC pump may also require an adapter to the older style AC hose block. AC specialists can set you up with an adapter. I called Classic Auto Air and they set me up with a washer/adapter kit that works well.
If you don't have AC just run the AC delete pulley. - The air pump delete pulley is not required, and I didn't use it. If you choose to run it. You may need to clearance the bracket and flip it over. The long straight run between the AC compressor and crank pulley has not given me any problems.
- I also had to reroute the fuel line - if you go with hard lines, will take a little massaging to ensure you don't rub anywhere. I still ran up the front of the block, but you have to work around the brackets so stock line won't work. Not hard, just took a little patience.
- Stock 92 Camaro pulleys all worked and cleared the crossmember - you mentioned underdrive pulleys, and other members have used them. I did not need to go that route.
Last edited by cooper9811; Feb 3, 2016 at 08:12 PM.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 21
Likes: 1
From: Blue Springs Missouri
Im doing a winter engine swap into my 1977. Going to an 89 gen II SBC. I'm considering the serpentine swap, but WOW…. big bucks!
What do you guys think the advantage is over the old short pump belt drive set up is? I don't think that's particularly ugly and I do plan on going to electric fan(s) and THATS another pile of decisions too! But other than a newer look and only one belt, any real advantages?
Lots of planning' being done over here!
Thank you.
-Walt
What do you guys think the advantage is over the old short pump belt drive set up is? I don't think that's particularly ugly and I do plan on going to electric fan(s) and THATS another pile of decisions too! But other than a newer look and only one belt, any real advantages?
Lots of planning' being done over here!
Thank you.
-Walt
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 664
Likes: 89
From: Marysville Ohio
Advantages are somewhat subjective in my opinion. I think the only clear ones in my mind are ease of changing belt(s), less likely to slip (due to the tensioning device), and a little cleaner look - but as you indicate, that's largely based on personal preference.
Cost can be reduced significantly if you are willing to be patient and take your time looking for parts - I have about $400-$450 total in mine (including finding a deal on an AC Delco AC compressor locally), so I'm in for about half of what the GM setup will cost new.
I would still do it again, even with the list of times I had to car for in my earlier post.
Cost can be reduced significantly if you are willing to be patient and take your time looking for parts - I have about $400-$450 total in mine (including finding a deal on an AC Delco AC compressor locally), so I'm in for about half of what the GM setup will cost new.
I would still do it again, even with the list of times I had to car for in my earlier post.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,989
Likes: 198
From: Meriden CT
Im doing a winter engine swap into my 1977. Going to an 89 gen II SBC. I'm considering the serpentine swap, but WOW…. big bucks!
What do you guys think the advantage is over the old short pump belt drive set up is? I don't think that's particularly ugly and I do plan on going to electric fan(s) and THATS another pile of decisions too! But other than a newer look and only one belt, any real advantages?
Lots of planning' being done over here!
Thank you.
-Walt
What do you guys think the advantage is over the old short pump belt drive set up is? I don't think that's particularly ugly and I do plan on going to electric fan(s) and THATS another pile of decisions too! But other than a newer look and only one belt, any real advantages?
Lots of planning' being done over here!
Thank you.
-Walt
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 55
Likes: 4
serpentine kit
I recently converted a 69 Camaro over to a GM style. The customer went AC delete so that part was easy. I also built a serpentine specific harness with a HD charging system upgrade to go with his CS130 alternator. He has stereo plans so that's why. I also plan to upgrade his further to a GM 140A alternator using a custom bracket adapter kit.
Besides looking nicer, this gives you a more efficient PS pump AND AC compressor if you go that route. And, obviously the single belt design is very trouble free. I personally feel the aftermarket kits are way overpriced since you're only getting a bit more eye candy for the money-I'd put that cash elsewhere on the car.
Besides looking nicer, this gives you a more efficient PS pump AND AC compressor if you go that route. And, obviously the single belt design is very trouble free. I personally feel the aftermarket kits are way overpriced since you're only getting a bit more eye candy for the money-I'd put that cash elsewhere on the car.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 21
Likes: 1
From: Blue Springs Missouri
Thanks guys for your info and opinions - that's what I was looking for.
I also think the serpentine drive looks cleaner (even the factory setups off of early 90s F-bodies)
But, understanding now that I may have to repave my pancake A/C compressor, plus probably the alternator and P/S pump, I think I'll just do my version of a super-clean, paint and reassemble the old style set up to get the car rolling again by summer. I took it apart in August of 2015 and really miss my baby! I will keep on the look out for a deal on a serpentine set up though.
Now a final question that I can't seem to find an answer to. What is the maximum CFM pull-through of the stock fan and shroud with the factory correct functioning clutch drive? Anybody publish that info?
I also think the serpentine drive looks cleaner (even the factory setups off of early 90s F-bodies)
But, understanding now that I may have to repave my pancake A/C compressor, plus probably the alternator and P/S pump, I think I'll just do my version of a super-clean, paint and reassemble the old style set up to get the car rolling again by summer. I took it apart in August of 2015 and really miss my baby! I will keep on the look out for a deal on a serpentine set up though.
Now a final question that I can't seem to find an answer to. What is the maximum CFM pull-through of the stock fan and shroud with the factory correct functioning clutch drive? Anybody publish that info?
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 664
Likes: 89
From: Marysville Ohio
Either steering pump will work. The C3 pump from a 79 will bolt into the Camaro bracket. You have to change the pulley. In my case, I found a pump for a camaro (with the pulley) so I just used that.