Someone I know has rebuilted a 59 from the ground up. Told me he had the new engine stamped with the VIN.

So, whata you think? Is this a common thing?


[Modified by OHSIXX, 9:52 AM 9/11/2002]

 

Do you really think that all those 40+ year old cars REALLY have the original engine after all these years? :D Restamping is very common. The ethical aspects of doing this are left as an exercise to the reader.......

Shannon

 

I think your friend may have outsmarted himself. I don't think VIN #'s hit the pads until 1960. My 59 which does have the original engine has an assembly code and no Vin on the pad. My 60 has a vin on the pad. If I remember correctly, it was a running change early in the 60 model year.

 

You are absolutely correct. This change was done during the 1960 model year... Exactly as you have stated.

As far as restamping in general, it's kind of like politics and religion... A very emotional subject for some people. I don't think that you'll ever get everyone to agree on what the correct course of action should be. I would bet that this issue would become less important if GM, by some small miracle, ever came up with the build orders for Chevrolet cars. The ZL-1 Camaros are a perfect example; most do not have the original engine, yet they command extremely high prices because all of the VINs for these cars are known. Unfortunately, the chance of these records being found for other Chevrolet cars is nearly nonexistant...

Threads on this topic in the past have mentioned how easy it is to restamp an engine... It is. However to restamp one so that it is undetectable to someone who knows a thing or two about engine stamps is another matter entirely. The example in this thread is a blatant error... Others are less so, but still easy enough to spot.

Something to keep in mind for anyone contemplating having this done.

Regards,

 

Oh God! Who would do such a low thing? Imagine..........................
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"Matching Numbers Forever"!

 

I suspect that some of them are not only NOT easy to spot, but are next to impossible to tell. I know of at least one guy who will do your engine for you with a set of the original GM gang stamps. I'm sure he's done hundreds, and I'll bet it'd be damned hard to tell the difference.

JB

 

In my opinion, It would have been better if there were no judging points given or taken for engine stampings. Give or take points for engine casting numbers and date codes yes but not for stampings. In the beginning restorers should have been encouraged to leave the original stampings and not destroy part of the history of the factory assembly process by restamping. Think of all the fun people would have swapping blocks reuniting cars with their original engine. I guess it's easy to say this now in hindsight but having an original vin number block (even if not a matching vin) should have been considered more valuable then a restamped block.


[Modified by joe58, 8:45 AM 9/11/2002]

 

My understanding is that it is more the surface then it is the stamp itself that gives it away. Apparently GM use a decking machine that made the cuts from front to back. The engine rebuilders use a machine that is rotary so its maching marks run at an angle rather than front to back. So the stamp may be made with an original GM gang stamp but if it is stamped on machine markings that run at an angle then you can tell that it has been restamped.

tom...

 

I've never understood that there can be any legitimate motive to do so. My block isn't the original one for my car. It is a correct '68 replacement block (right casting number and date code is about 3 months before build date) but started it's life in a truck (I think). When I had my engine rebuilt, I was asked about decking it which would erase the numbers. I said "no". I'm not interested in trying to "fake" my motor and I would never misrepresent the car as a "matching numbers" engine should I ever sell it. I had a lot of enjoyment in selecting the bits and pieces to build my engine so that my car would perform like the original L79 would have but with a bit more torque (couldn't resist!).

 

Joe,

I'm usually in agreement with anything that you post, but we certainly differ on this one.

Judging itself has very little to do with restamping... It's really a money issue. There is a perception that a car with its original components (engine included) is somehow more valuable than one that does not. Until that changes, I doubt you'll see a decrease in activity for this practice. Right or wrong, dealers as well as individuals use this point to get higher sale prices for their cars and it isn't likely to change any time soon.

For what it's worth, a Corvette can receive the NCRS's highest award, the Duntov Award (or McLellan Award depending upon the year), without having ANY part of the stamp pad information correct for the car. For as much criticism as the NCRS gets (especially from non-members), the organization takes a realistic approach to this issue and the solution is certainly adequate at the very least.

Other organizations out there would do well to take the NCRS's lead and reexamine thier policy on stamp pads.

Regards,

 

As long as the market puts a premium on numbers matching if will continue. Theives have to make a living too. :)

I prefer non matching so I can bastardized the car as I see fit.

 

I actually considered re-stamping the #'s onto my block only because when I looked closely the last four #'s of my VIN were still somewhat visible after rubbing a little grease into them and the odds of it not being the original motor after seeing that seemed overwhelmingly staggering. A friend and GM Service mechanic mentioned to me what Tom 73 said about the machining grooves (mine are at sort of an arcing angle) and I decided a re-stamp would look more dishonest then what I could bring out of the stamp pad at the time of selling the car so I never went through with it. :)

 

Doug, I like your line of thought. My engine was butchered as it lived a hot rod lifestyle. The original engine was replaced (probably blown). As I have a valuable car, "numbers matching" plays a big part. I will also rebuild my engine to proper specs with but a few mods to better take advantage of what GM originally created. In the event I do sell, hopefuly my few mods wil outweigh the numbers game.

Stan, I am not part of NCRS yet, but my first contact with someone regarding the stamp issue impressed me that NCRS is not as uptight as we might believe. My car (with enough money spent) can still be a top flight car. Since I do not care about awards personally, I will build the LT-1 in my possession as mentioned, but will leave the body, interiror and exterior as close to NCRS as possible. That always allows the car to be returned to Top Flight condition later on, but will allow me to enjoy her in all of her glory now.

 

It would be nice if Bloomington Gold would adopt NCRS's policy on stamp pads.