Alignment changes when adjusting camber.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 598
Alignment changes when adjusting camber.
Just you give you an idea of how much toe changes when you adjust your camber.
orig spec.
camber = -0.3 degree's
total toe = 1/16" toe in.
Caster + 3.7 degree's
New spec
camber = -1.6 degree's
total toe = 15/32" toe out.
caster = + 4.0 degree's
This is the change I get when I setup for track days. This was before I changed the toe back to my desired spec.
Today I decided to see how much it actually changes.
orig spec.
camber = -0.3 degree's
total toe = 1/16" toe in.
Caster + 3.7 degree's
New spec
camber = -1.6 degree's
total toe = 15/32" toe out.
caster = + 4.0 degree's
This is the change I get when I setup for track days. This was before I changed the toe back to my desired spec.
Today I decided to see how much it actually changes.
Last edited by cagotzmann; Sep 20, 2016 at 10:51 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 224
From: Pawleys Island, SC
Are you saying that if I add an equal amount of shim to the fore and aft control arm mount bolts to cause the top of he wheel to tilt further inboard, it affects caster and toe? I thought camber was the only thing I could change without affecting the other geometry. Can you explain how that happens?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,700
Likes: 3,469
From: Akron Ohio
2025 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
2024 C5 of the Year Winner - Modified
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
Just you give you an idea of how much toe changes when you adjust your camber.
orig spec.
camber = -0.3 degree's
total toe = 1/16" toe in.
Caster + 3.7 degree's
New spec
camber = -1.6 degree's
total toe = 15/32" toe out.
caster = + 4.0 degree's
This is the change I get when I setup for track days. This was before I changed the toe back to my desired spec.
Today I decided to see how much it actually changes.
orig spec.
camber = -0.3 degree's
total toe = 1/16" toe in.
Caster + 3.7 degree's
New spec
camber = -1.6 degree's
total toe = 15/32" toe out.
caster = + 4.0 degree's
This is the change I get when I setup for track days. This was before I changed the toe back to my desired spec.
Today I decided to see how much it actually changes.
Are you saying that if I add an equal amount of shim to the fore and aft control arm mount bolts to cause the top of he wheel to tilt further inboard, it affects caster and toe? I thought camber was the only thing I could change without affecting the other geometry. Can you explain how that happens?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 224
From: Pawleys Island, SC
OK, I'll buy that but the example detailed in the original post had the opposite result, if I'm understanding correctly. Toe-in should have increased with the increase in negative camber, not gone to a toe-out condition.
So how is it that the camber change would affect caster?
So how is it that the camber change would affect caster?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,700
Likes: 3,469
From: Akron Ohio
2025 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
2024 C5 of the Year Winner - Modified
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
OK, I'll buy that but the example detailed in the original post had the opposite result, if I'm understanding correctly. Toe-in should have increased with the increase in negative camber, not gone to a toe-out condition.
So how is it that the camber change would affect caster?
So how is it that the camber change would affect caster?
Even if you use the same amount of shims on each bolt there are manufacturing tolerances in the shims and when they stack up can most certainly move caster. Sometimes you have to mess around with different shims or use another thickness all together.
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Pro
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
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From: hernando fl
SAI ( steering axis inclination) is the angle between the upper and lower ball joint , the included angle is when you add the SAI and camber together. SAI is also known as KPI ( King Pin Inclination) at least it was back in the stone age when i was involved with alignment studies . camber roll in turns is the visible effect of SAI. SAI also has a big impact on wheel offset and greatly effects scrub radius.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,363
Likes: 1,588
From: los altos hills california
This thread is a nice contribution to alignment questions. I am curious as to whether you have incorporated bump steer correction in your front end setup?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 598
Stock setup except for SPC Upper control arms and poly bushings in stock lower control arms. 550# vbandp front springs.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 598
I have just returned the front to street specs.
Before
-1.3 Degree's Camber
1/32" toe in
Caster 3.8 degree's
After
-0.1 Degree's Camber
12/32" toe in
Caster 4.0 degree's
What I find interesting is the caster change.
And here is why.
Original setup I added negative camber and got 3 degree's more positive caster.
Then I corrected toe in since the camber change added more toe out. (never re-checked caster) but based on the before measurements compared to the after when I added more toe in, the caster looks to have changed from 3.7 to 3.8 or in-fact be the same (+- 0.1). I lost caster adding more toe in)
Then after the track event I removed negative camber got more toe in, but also got more caster.
I am going to check the adjustment of toe changes affecting caster.
My understanding it shouldn't but ? It my have something to do with how the camber caster gauge works. It isn't really measuring the true caster angle but calculate it based on camber changes with the wheel Turing 30 degree's and divide the difference by 1.5
Anyway this is the results I got returning the camber back to street specs.
I am going to return the toe next and see what happens.
Before
-1.3 Degree's Camber
1/32" toe in
Caster 3.8 degree's
After
-0.1 Degree's Camber
12/32" toe in
Caster 4.0 degree's
What I find interesting is the caster change.
And here is why.
Original setup I added negative camber and got 3 degree's more positive caster.
Then I corrected toe in since the camber change added more toe out. (never re-checked caster) but based on the before measurements compared to the after when I added more toe in, the caster looks to have changed from 3.7 to 3.8 or in-fact be the same (+- 0.1). I lost caster adding more toe in)
Then after the track event I removed negative camber got more toe in, but also got more caster.
I am going to check the adjustment of toe changes affecting caster.
My understanding it shouldn't but ? It my have something to do with how the camber caster gauge works. It isn't really measuring the true caster angle but calculate it based on camber changes with the wheel Turing 30 degree's and divide the difference by 1.5
Anyway this is the results I got returning the camber back to street specs.
I am going to return the toe next and see what happens.
Last edited by cagotzmann; Sep 25, 2016 at 02:14 PM.