Electronic Ignition system for pre '75, pros, cons, problems
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 379
Likes: 54
Electronic Ignition system for pre '75, pros, cons, problems
I'm thinking about going to an electronic ignition system for my 73.
The choices seem to be:
If anybody has had problems with these, or can add pros or cons to one of these systems it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
(And, yes, I believe it will make no noticeable difference in everyday driving)
The choices seem to be:
- Early OEM - very expensive parts and used to die too often
- HEI tach drive distributor - need to change to HEI plug wires and won't fit under shielding
- MSD or Accel electronic tach drive distributor but needs ignition box
- Pertronix systems fit inside stock distributor and can use stock coil (II & II require some rewiring) 2 wires come out from distributor
- Breakerless-SE-Ignition-Kit also fits inside stock distributor and can use stock coil but I doubt the two-piece stamped tin rotor would produce equal timing for all cylinders
If anybody has had problems with these, or can add pros or cons to one of these systems it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
(And, yes, I believe it will make no noticeable difference in everyday driving)
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 14,321
Likes: 8,125
From: Napa Valley California
All depends on what you call a noticeable difference.
I've swapped from OEM to an MSD system on several vehicles and boats. I've never felt an increase in torque or horsepower, but I've noticed easier starts, smoother idle, and a little snappier throttle response, which is significant in a daily driver. Just follow the instructions and call MSD tech line if any questions come up. I'll be swapping to MSD when I pull my motor for the rebuild/upgrade.
I've swapped from OEM to an MSD system on several vehicles and boats. I've never felt an increase in torque or horsepower, but I've noticed easier starts, smoother idle, and a little snappier throttle response, which is significant in a daily driver. Just follow the instructions and call MSD tech line if any questions come up. I'll be swapping to MSD when I pull my motor for the rebuild/upgrade.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 18,690
Likes: 2,572
you seem to have the same thread running in two forums
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-problems.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-problems.html
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,851
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
I have the pertronix in my 62 and the MSD in my 72. I love the kit in my 62 because I eliminated the point bouncing issue I was having. The car fires right up without any issue.
I like the MSD kit with the tach drive distributor but one thing MSD won't tell you is that you can not jump start a car with MSD ignition. Oh, you might get away with it a few times but when you have a battery charger in the "Start" position it will more than likely zap a diode in the MSD box. We leaned this the hard way after trashing two boxes and calling MSD only to be told by their tech team you should never do it... You'd think they would put a note in the box when you install it huh... So the only work around is to pull the battery cable and charge the battery.
Willcox
I like the MSD kit with the tach drive distributor but one thing MSD won't tell you is that you can not jump start a car with MSD ignition. Oh, you might get away with it a few times but when you have a battery charger in the "Start" position it will more than likely zap a diode in the MSD box. We leaned this the hard way after trashing two boxes and calling MSD only to be told by their tech team you should never do it... You'd think they would put a note in the box when you install it huh... So the only work around is to pull the battery cable and charge the battery.
Willcox
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,117
Likes: 104
From: charlotte north carolina
There is absolutely no benefit gained in switching to an electronic system-unless you're running a 7500 RPM monster engine. Not cost, fuel economy, performance and least of all, reliability. Rebuild (or have someone knowledgeable) the stock distributor and you're good for 6000 RPM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,851
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
There is absolutely no benefit gained in switching to an electronic system-unless you're running a 7500 RPM monster engine. Not cost, fuel economy, performance and least of all, reliability. Rebuild (or have someone knowledgeable) the stock distributor and you're good for 6000 RPM.
My points were floating at 6000 on my 62... (dual point distributor too)... This is why I switched. But, in all fairness I doubt the OP is turning this many RPMS's. I've not had any issues with the pertronix kit either way. Willcox
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 379
Likes: 54
Thank you for the posts. I appreciate the information, especially regarding reliability.
My mistake about posting twice. I could not find my original post in the General forum (perhaps I needed to refresh) so I (wrongly) guessed it was deleted being perhaps better suited for Tech/Performance.
In any case, forum members once again provided what I needed: info from experience as opposed to advertising hype.
My mistake about posting twice. I could not find my original post in the General forum (perhaps I needed to refresh) so I (wrongly) guessed it was deleted being perhaps better suited for Tech/Performance.
In any case, forum members once again provided what I needed: info from experience as opposed to advertising hype.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 99
Likes: 10
From: Denver CO
My '71 came with an electronic style on it, yes the shielding fits on but there is an extra coil and wires running different places.
Took that stuff off and dropped a tach drive HEI on there, set the base timing and it runs better than it ever did before. I took all the shielding and brackets off, and personally I like the look of the distributor don't see any need to cover it up. Just get nice wires and spend some time routing them neatly.
I may go back to electronic when I have to run a MSD boost timing master for some forced induction, but for now I like the simplicity of the HEI, it only needed one power wire which I ran a new one so I know the wiring is good for a long time and of sufficient gauge.
Took that stuff off and dropped a tach drive HEI on there, set the base timing and it runs better than it ever did before. I took all the shielding and brackets off, and personally I like the look of the distributor don't see any need to cover it up. Just get nice wires and spend some time routing them neatly.
I may go back to electronic when I have to run a MSD boost timing master for some forced induction, but for now I like the simplicity of the HEI, it only needed one power wire which I ran a new one so I know the wiring is good for a long time and of sufficient gauge.
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Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,095
Likes: 4,025
From: New Braunfels Texas
If there was no benefit......nobody, including the auto industry, would use it......
Granted.....the benefit is less on a 72' 350/200 Vette........but it increases dramatically when running a large overlap cam......this is the MSD box in action below 3000 providing multiple sparks......
Besides the electronic component....the distributor itself is much easier to curve precisely.......
And last but not least.......if you leave the key on with the engine off you risk zero chance of burning the points......points it is 50/50 if they are open or closed......
I like the MSD setup with the 6AL and a hot coil.......makes a super fat spark kernel with a NGK plug.......mini arc welder.....points do not do that......
Jebby
Granted.....the benefit is less on a 72' 350/200 Vette........but it increases dramatically when running a large overlap cam......this is the MSD box in action below 3000 providing multiple sparks......
Besides the electronic component....the distributor itself is much easier to curve precisely.......
And last but not least.......if you leave the key on with the engine off you risk zero chance of burning the points......points it is 50/50 if they are open or closed......
I like the MSD setup with the 6AL and a hot coil.......makes a super fat spark kernel with a NGK plug.......mini arc welder.....points do not do that......
Jebby
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,628
Likes: 132
From: Duvall, WA
I have MSD distributor, 6A ignition and coil on my '71, mostly so I wouldn't have to deal with points. There's no other advantage over a properly functioning factory set up. Either the fuel/air mixture ignites or it doesn't.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,850
Likes: 959
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
There is absolutely no benefit gained in switching to an electronic system-unless you're running a 7500 RPM monster engine. Not cost, fuel economy, performance and least of all, reliability. Rebuild (or have someone knowledgeable) the stock distributor and you're good for 6000 RPM.
I converted my stock distributor to pointless decades ago. It's stone reliable (I use a proven and reliable Delco HEI module to switch the stock Delco can coil). There's nothing to wear out, and the extra energy delivered to the system allows for a lot longer plug life (important to those of us running a big block, and one of the main reasons for GM changing to the HEI system) and my timing isn't constantly trying to self retard as a rubbing block wears down.
Instructor
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 178
Likes: 22
From: Vermont
MSD !!! I switched not for the performance, but to eliminate point adjustments ( as the gap closes, which it does, the timing is constantly changing )and for better all-around "driveability." The constant monitoring by MSD of your driving conditions eliminates pinging and most poor fuel situations. Much cleaner low-end response. If points were good, original equipment would still use them. You can always hide the 6AL box . Go with the Blaster coil & it will not be seen. Welcome to the 21st century !
Tim
Tim
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,117
Likes: 104
From: charlotte north carolina
Say what you want about the reliability of HEI and point-less systems, I'm an old fart and if I can see the points open and close, I know that I can make it home. If one of those new-fangled systems dies, those damn electrons are really hard to see. And then there is the issue of cheap, soft metal used in the main shaft, cross shaft and tach drive gears. As many corners GM cut to save money, those OEM distributors can go 100K miles. I used to wind my SB and BBC to 6K without a hitch.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
My '72 had the points, and I tried and cried but just no way was I going to equal the performance of the '87 L98 setup in economy or easy driving....so it being a old show car, it grew L98 injection and electric tach and some other goodies along the way......
NOW I have a highly modified LT1 injection setup with HEI up top the way GOD intended.......by by soggy opti sparks.....edit....forgot to mention greatly improved MPG....24 mpg up/down I 95 doing 80 at 4000 rpm......steady on.....
NOW I have a highly modified LT1 injection setup with HEI up top the way GOD intended.......by by soggy opti sparks.....edit....forgot to mention greatly improved MPG....24 mpg up/down I 95 doing 80 at 4000 rpm......steady on.....
Last edited by mrvette; Nov 18, 2016 at 06:47 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,850
Likes: 959
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Say what you want about the reliability of HEI and point-less systems, I'm an old fart and if I can see the points open and close, I know that I can make it home. If one of those new-fangled systems dies, those damn electrons are really hard to see. And then there is the issue of cheap, soft metal used in the main shaft, cross shaft and tach drive gears. As many corners GM cut to save money, those OEM distributors can go 100K miles. I used to wind my SB and BBC to 6K without a hitch.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 38
From: Los Gatos CA
They all work. Pertronix is a nice easy way to eliminate points. MSD is good if you have the need. I have had great luck with both. Personally, I tore all that stuff of my car, because as I get older I enjoy the stock configuration of these cars. Mine is a base L36... But that's just me.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 258
From: Dublin Ohio
My 72 350/200 ran really bad above 3000 rpm and the higher it went the worse it got. It literally wouldn't rev past 4000 in 1st 2nd or 3rd.
The guy that was working on it experimented with a different stock distributor and it ran a little better then threw in an HEI distributor from summit and it runs perfect. While my goal was to just diagnose the problem I ended buying the distributor and plug wires from him and drove it home. The stock shield fit, by the way. It does touch the air cleaner though.
So I know the problem is either the reproduction dated wires, the reproduction coil, or the distributor that had been rebuilt a few years ago, and when I get the urge I'll have all of that stuff tested and rebuilt if needed, but in the meantime it runs great - just weird not seeing a coil.
The guy that was working on it experimented with a different stock distributor and it ran a little better then threw in an HEI distributor from summit and it runs perfect. While my goal was to just diagnose the problem I ended buying the distributor and plug wires from him and drove it home. The stock shield fit, by the way. It does touch the air cleaner though.
So I know the problem is either the reproduction dated wires, the reproduction coil, or the distributor that had been rebuilt a few years ago, and when I get the urge I'll have all of that stuff tested and rebuilt if needed, but in the meantime it runs great - just weird not seeing a coil.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 337
From: "ɹǝpunuʍop", Adelaide, South Australia
Breakerless-SE for me
installed in bout 1/2hr, turned key, fired straight up
used stock coil, no extra wires to see for original look.
have since replaced the original 44yr old coil, still a stock unit, same great spark.
installed in bout 1/2hr, turned key, fired straight up
used stock coil, no extra wires to see for original look.
have since replaced the original 44yr old coil, still a stock unit, same great spark.
