200R4 - Is Lock up required
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Lakeville Minnesota
200R4 - Is Lock up required
Crunched the Turbo 350 Tranny in my 1980 Vette.
Found a 200r4 from a 85 Caddy to swap out.
i Have a guy who is willing to rebuild it.
He said we can use regular parts, add a shift kit and we are good to go.
My engine is a 350 with 265HP to the rear wheels (about 350hp at fly).
3.55 rear end gears.
He also said that we can skip using the "Lock Up" system.
So, two main questions. Besides the shift kit are there any upgrades that should be made to this transmission when rebuilt?
What are any major problems one would encounter by not using the lock up on the torque converter.
Thank you for any help,
Found a 200r4 from a 85 Caddy to swap out.
i Have a guy who is willing to rebuild it.
He said we can use regular parts, add a shift kit and we are good to go.
My engine is a 350 with 265HP to the rear wheels (about 350hp at fly).
3.55 rear end gears.
He also said that we can skip using the "Lock Up" system.
So, two main questions. Besides the shift kit are there any upgrades that should be made to this transmission when rebuilt?
What are any major problems one would encounter by not using the lock up on the torque converter.
Thank you for any help,
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
Crunched the Turbo 350 Tranny in my 1980 Vette.
Found a 200r4 from a 85 Caddy to swap out.
i Have a guy who is willing to rebuild it.
He said we can use regular parts, add a shift kit and we are good to go.
My engine is a 350 with 265HP to the rear wheels (about 350hp at fly).
3.55 rear end gears.
He also said that we can skip using the "Lock Up" system.
So, two main questions. Besides the shift kit are there any upgrades that should be made to this transmission when rebuilt?
What are any major problems one would encounter by not using the lock up on the torque converter.
Thank you for any help,
Found a 200r4 from a 85 Caddy to swap out.
i Have a guy who is willing to rebuild it.
He said we can use regular parts, add a shift kit and we are good to go.
My engine is a 350 with 265HP to the rear wheels (about 350hp at fly).
3.55 rear end gears.
He also said that we can skip using the "Lock Up" system.
So, two main questions. Besides the shift kit are there any upgrades that should be made to this transmission when rebuilt?
What are any major problems one would encounter by not using the lock up on the torque converter.
Thank you for any help,
http://www.transgo.com/products.php?...dcountview=Yes
And this kit for hydraulic lock up:
http://www.transgo.com/products.php?...7&prod_start=2
With these, there are NO problems with using LU torque converters.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
I thought the 1980s came with lockup TCs and the lockup switch already on the brake pedal, no?
If you don't use a lockup torque converter you'll want a separate trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator for cooling. The Torque Converter will help keep the trans cool (which means live longer) and it will also improve highway cruise fuel economy.
Adam
If you don't use a lockup torque converter you'll want a separate trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator for cooling. The Torque Converter will help keep the trans cool (which means live longer) and it will also improve highway cruise fuel economy.
Adam
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
Next trip, fluid never got hot, just warm.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 201
From: Willoughby Ohio
Lockup is not required with a few mods. Most that go without lockup are making big power which would require a multi disk lock up converter.
The multi disk converters are quite expensive.My set up is a Vince Janis 2004r with billet input shaft and drum with a PTC non lock up converter.
I will also be running a 12 bolt 4.11 rear. IMOP your set up will work just fine with the lock up. I would stay local with the rebuild just in case there is an issue to avoid shipping hassles etc... The wiring kits are readily available and should not be a deterrent. The turbo buick site has a wealth of information for this transmission and I would advise you to check there.
The multi disk converters are quite expensive.My set up is a Vince Janis 2004r with billet input shaft and drum with a PTC non lock up converter.
I will also be running a 12 bolt 4.11 rear. IMOP your set up will work just fine with the lock up. I would stay local with the rebuild just in case there is an issue to avoid shipping hassles etc... The wiring kits are readily available and should not be a deterrent. The turbo buick site has a wealth of information for this transmission and I would advise you to check there.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,706
Likes: 329
From: Scottsdale Arizona
I agree with all of the above. I like the hydraulic lock up kit. Very simple to install. All you need is switched 12 volts and a ground and it'll figure the rest out for itself.
Also, do yourself a favor and add an external cooler for the transmission. It'll extend the transmission life and keep your engine cooler for good measure. I added a thermostatically controlled bypass to allow it to warm up on cold days.
Having said all of the above, not having the lock up enabled will cost you a little more heat generation in both the engine and transmission from higher revs and a little extra gas. Not a big deal.
Also, do yourself a favor and add an external cooler for the transmission. It'll extend the transmission life and keep your engine cooler for good measure. I added a thermostatically controlled bypass to allow it to warm up on cold days.
Having said all of the above, not having the lock up enabled will cost you a little more heat generation in both the engine and transmission from higher revs and a little extra gas. Not a big deal.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
wish I could run it at 30f like a cold winter start...it shifts like a running bandit then......
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,989
Likes: 198
From: Meriden CT
Crunched the Turbo 350 Tranny in my 1980 Vette.
Found a 200r4 from a 85 Caddy to swap out.
i Have a guy who is willing to rebuild it.
He said we can use regular parts, add a shift kit and we are good to go.
My engine is a 350 with 265HP to the rear wheels (about 350hp at fly).
3.55 rear end gears.
He also said that we can skip using the "Lock Up" system.
So, two main questions. Besides the shift kit are there any upgrades that should be made to this transmission when rebuilt?
What are any major problems one would encounter by not using the lock up on the torque converter.
Thank you for any help,
Found a 200r4 from a 85 Caddy to swap out.
i Have a guy who is willing to rebuild it.
He said we can use regular parts, add a shift kit and we are good to go.
My engine is a 350 with 265HP to the rear wheels (about 350hp at fly).
3.55 rear end gears.
He also said that we can skip using the "Lock Up" system.
So, two main questions. Besides the shift kit are there any upgrades that should be made to this transmission when rebuilt?
What are any major problems one would encounter by not using the lock up on the torque converter.
Thank you for any help,
Last edited by SH-60B; Dec 27, 2016 at 04:25 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,381
Likes: 416
From: N J
Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread, but a quick question.
Will an external cooler alone work? My legs are bothering me now and I am considering going back to auto. Radiator is for a manual. Its a BB with around 400 hp and 3.70 rear. Picked up a 200 and various parts for the swap but not sure about cooling. Thank you.
Will an external cooler alone work? My legs are bothering me now and I am considering going back to auto. Radiator is for a manual. Its a BB with around 400 hp and 3.70 rear. Picked up a 200 and various parts for the swap but not sure about cooling. Thank you.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 201
From: Willoughby Ohio
Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread, but a quick question.
Will an external cooler alone work? My legs are bothering me now and I am considering going back to auto. Radiator is for a manual. Its a BB with around 400 hp and 3.70 rear. Picked up a 200 and various parts for the swap but not sure about cooling. Thank you.
Will an external cooler alone work? My legs are bothering me now and I am considering going back to auto. Radiator is for a manual. Its a BB with around 400 hp and 3.70 rear. Picked up a 200 and various parts for the swap but not sure about cooling. Thank you.
Hope this helps,
Dave
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread, but a quick question.
Will an external cooler alone work? My legs are bothering me now and I am considering going back to auto. Radiator is for a manual. Its a BB with around 400 hp and 3.70 rear. Picked up a 200 and various parts for the swap but not sure about cooling. Thank you.
Will an external cooler alone work? My legs are bothering me now and I am considering going back to auto. Radiator is for a manual. Its a BB with around 400 hp and 3.70 rear. Picked up a 200 and various parts for the swap but not sure about cooling. Thank you.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
The 200r4 is weaker that a th350. Shift kits andTransgo valve body kits don't strengthen the tranny. Without serous internal hot rodding it is not going to last behind your power
Efficient 9.5 inch even 3500 rpm stall produce little heat or lower mpg over their lockup counter parts
Vigilante tc and external big coolers.
Efficient 9.5 inch even 3500 rpm stall produce little heat or lower mpg over their lockup counter parts
Vigilante tc and external big coolers.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 42
From: Austin Texas
Check out this write up on the turbo buick site.
http://turbobuick.com/threads/attent...e-2004r.31365/
My car has about the same power as yours and same gears too. I bought a used 2004r out of a 87 Monte Carlo SS. The guy said he could not get second to shift how he wanted. I put it in and just cruising around town and to the grocery store it would have been just fine. But, punch it and it would slip at the shift points.
I made two upgrades:
1. CK Performance shift recalibration kit with .555 boost valve
2. CK Performance pro street servo
The increase in pressure and calibration fixed the sloppy shifts and has prolonged the life of the unit.
Why don't you want OD? Seems like heat would be the biggest side effect of no OD.
John
http://turbobuick.com/threads/attent...e-2004r.31365/
My car has about the same power as yours and same gears too. I bought a used 2004r out of a 87 Monte Carlo SS. The guy said he could not get second to shift how he wanted. I put it in and just cruising around town and to the grocery store it would have been just fine. But, punch it and it would slip at the shift points.
I made two upgrades:
1. CK Performance shift recalibration kit with .555 boost valve
2. CK Performance pro street servo
The increase in pressure and calibration fixed the sloppy shifts and has prolonged the life of the unit.
Why don't you want OD? Seems like heat would be the biggest side effect of no OD.
John
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
Likes: 433
From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
Make sure the bellhousing bolt pattern is the same as the Chevrolet. Lot's of years there were 2 distinct cases- one for Chevrolet and a BOP that also covered the Cadillac. There are even some that fit everything.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
The 200-4R from a Cadillac may already have most of the upgrades built into it. But, that needs to be researched; the primary upgrades may not have been available in '85.
Also, make sure the total length of that trans is correct for your car. There were different length tailshafts on some builds. If it is longer than the unit you have in there now, you might have installation problems.
No you don't HAVE to install or hookup the lockup clutch. But, the transmission will run significantly hotter when cruising at speed, if L/U is defeated. You will also lose about 5 to 10% fuel mileage if you don't take advantage of the L/U feature.
Also, make sure the total length of that trans is correct for your car. There were different length tailshafts on some builds. If it is longer than the unit you have in there now, you might have installation problems.
No you don't HAVE to install or hookup the lockup clutch. But, the transmission will run significantly hotter when cruising at speed, if L/U is defeated. You will also lose about 5 to 10% fuel mileage if you don't take advantage of the L/U feature.
Last edited by 7T1vette; Dec 28, 2016 at 02:25 AM.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 708
Likes: 21
From: Montrose CA
Years ago I purchased a 2004R from Bowtie Overdrives...
At the time they offered a manual switch to lock the transmission (apparently in 4th Gear???)
http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...php?ITEMID=340
Now they offer a more sophisticated lockup that links to the brake pedal to presumably unlock itself...
http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...php?ITEMID=339
With the manual switch - I can report that for my type of driving I have only locked the transmission perhaps twice... once 16-years ago to see the effect was like - which I did not like... and once a couple years ago to see "hummm - what does that switch do?" - and then I remembered why I had not used the switch for 14 years...
Perhaps better with the brake relay to unlock upon braking but I did not like lugging down the engine decelerating from highway speeds pending turning off the switch.
Also - the 4-speed overdrive transmission is the single most valuable mod made to the car...
Last edited by Carl in LA; Feb 20, 2017 at 11:42 AM.