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Hey guys I need some help with a cam change, I have a flat tappet. Going to change to a hyd. roller. I have 10.5 compression, profiler heads 210 intake runners, intake 2.05 and exhaust 1.6, dual plane intake 780 carb. headers and side pipes. 373 gear.th350 trans 4000 stall. I've talked to comp and they said go with xr288hr 520/540 lift and 236/242 duration lsa is 112. Howards said go with 530/545 lift and 233/245 duration lsa is 110, both duration is at .050, The engine was dyno at 425hp and 417tq with the flat tappet cam. What are your thoughts?
Both cams will work about the same for peak horse power. The close LSA will make the torque band higher in the rpm range and peak quickly. What do you intend to do with the car? If you're prowling the street with the occasional big smokey burnout , you may want to pick a milder cam with a little less duration and a 113-114 LSA.
Sound pretty good. I have a Crane Cam #119581 in my 388 (.060 over) stroker, 238/242@.050, .558" lift, and it rips. Love it, drives real nice. Is the engine built to take some revs? That kinda cam will pull well past 6000.
I have the XR288HR ground on a 114 LSA. Very happy with it!! 10.4 to 1, AFR 195 competition ported, 3 deuces Headers Sidepipes 515 HP and 495 Ft lbs. over 450 Ft lbs from 3800 to 6000.
I have a 383 with 238/242 112 mid .600 lift solid roller. 830 carb on a single plane
Side pipes are loosing you power. They are not tuned length headers
Years ago I had a hoped up th350 behind my 355 ci motor it always seemed to end up with busted chunk of metal in the pan. I can't imagine that with a 4000 stall yours is working. Lol
all internals are forged, If I go with a 114 LSA will it move the hp and tq down in the rpm range? I thought that was in the duration? The car is mostly Friday- Sat. night car. As far as the side pipes, nothing sounds so good, I have sweet thunder 2 1/2" mufflers you can here it a mile away.
From: Some days your the dog and some days your the hydrant.
Royal Canadian Navy
I believe Dave Vizard said use a cam with the highest possible lift with the least duration to prevent engine ping. My little 355 was built on that observation and I achived 357 rwhp on a Mustang dyno.
Gkull, how much life/miles do you get out of your solid rollers? I would like to go that way but have read that they don't live long on the street, and read of people changing the roller lifters as maintenance items every 3000 miles or so... Which doesn't work for me, I'd want at least 30,000 miles between teardowns and preferably over 60,000, I like to drive my cars a lot!
Profilers need around a 6 degree split. A 210cc head on the 383 is on the large side for a street strip combo. I would suggest a something like a 230/236 on a 109 LSA. That will give the best average power under the curve and peak around 6000 rpm putting a shift point at around 6300 or 6400.
This is a 406 with a set of 210 Profilers and similar cam.
With all the money you're putting in it AND to go to retro hydraulic roller cam and lifters, it's not much more to go with a custom billet cam.
Chris: Do you recommend the same intake / exhaust split across the Profiler line or were you specifically referring to the 210cc Profilers? (because I believe the exhaust CFM is the same across their range from 185cc - 210cc and only the intake CFM changes-- to me that would indicate that the ideal split would change depending upon intake CC- no?)
Gkull, how much life/miles do you get out of your solid rollers? I would like to go that way but have read that they don't live long on the street, and read of people changing the roller lifters as maintenance items every 3000 miles or so... Which doesn't work for me, I'd want at least 30,000 miles between teardowns and preferably over 60,000, I like to drive my cars a lot!
Everything is a learning curve. Chris Straub might have some good ideas on high mileage solid roller cams.
I have two solid roller street/track motors. Each of them have had to be rebuilt my 434 SBC is on it's third and I'm still using the same Crane Pro lifters on each. I have not kept real good records of the total miles. But I imagine that it you build them right and have a 7000 rpm rev limiter they seem to outlast the motors.
My first street SR with an off the shelf Crane cam and cheap roller lifters failed during my second year. It was just a fluke that I caught it. I had blown the head copper gasket while running around a road racing track and upon tear down inspection I had a couple of wheels with early wheel baring failure. They were crunchy to roll around in your fingers.
So to make solid roller lifters last, you have the following considerations. quality of the lifter, total weight of the valve train, how radical the cam lobe is, spring weight open and closed, oiling system, and valve control. If you ever go into valve float you can beat up the wheels in an instant. So valve control is quality springs in conjunction with a rev limiter.
Crane Pro lifters are among the top shelf somewhere around $800 per set. Chris Struab has his brand for about $900.
Crane pro lifters are light weight, my comp cams custom 80 wall 5/16th, Comp cams pro steel roller rockers, 10 degree lock chromoly retainers, Manley 2.10 and other head 2.08 proflow valves, my comp cam spring are dual 1.56 or 1.60 diameter. So my valve train is light. About all I could do it titanium retainers and or intake valves.
I have fairly radical lobes out of the comp cams lobe pages. fast lift and slower closing.
I buy say 240 closed 560 pound springs. with installed heights of 2.00 inches then i install them at say 2.05 inches and drop the closed and open rates to say 205 pounds closed. this is plenty good for light weight valve train in a sub 7000 rpm environment.
I use high volume pumps with priority mains oiling systems, 8 quarts, non bypass. I use oil weight to adjust the max oil pressure hot. My motors idle at 1000 ish hot which also helps lube the rollers.
I would say that I have over 30,000 lots of hard miles on each of these motors. It just takes some thought, I use VR1 racing oil. My water temp is always around 200 and I use 195 thermostats to get my chokeless motors up to heat fast before i ever really move them.
I've driven my vette straight through one way 2000 miles with just gas and go only to come home the same way a week later
With all the money you're putting in it AND to go to retro hydraulic roller cam and lifters, it's not much more to go with a custom billet cam.
Chris: Do you recommend the same intake / exhaust split across the Profiler line or were you specifically referring to the 210cc Profilers? (because I believe the exhaust CFM is the same across their range from 185cc - 210cc and only the intake CFM changes-- to me that would indicate that the ideal split would change depending upon intake CC- no?)
Adam
Piston demand will change this some but for the average street guy 6 is a good rule of thumb on the Profiler stuff.
Everything is a learning curve. Chris Straub might have some good ideas on high mileage solid roller cams.
I have two solid roller street/track motors. Each of them have had to be rebuilt my 434 SBC is on it's third and I'm still using the same Crane Pro lifters on each. I have not kept real good records of the total miles. But I imagine that it you build them right and have a 7000 rpm rev limiter they seem to outlast the motors.
My first street SR with an off the shelf Crane cam and cheap roller lifters failed during my second year. It was just a fluke that I caught it. I had blown the head copper gasket while running around a road racing track and upon tear down inspection I had a couple of wheels with early wheel baring failure. They were crunchy to roll around in your fingers.
So to make solid roller lifters last, you have the following considerations. quality of the lifter, total weight of the valve train, how radical the cam lobe is, spring weight open and closed, oiling system, and valve control. If you ever go into valve float you can beat up the wheels in an instant. So valve control is quality springs in conjunction with a rev limiter.
Crane Pro lifters are among the top shelf somewhere around $800 per set. Chris Struab has his brand for about $900.
Crane pro lifters are light weight, my comp cams custom 80 wall 5/16th, Comp cams pro steel roller rockers, 10 degree lock chromoly retainers, Manley 2.10 and other head 2.08 proflow valves, my comp cam spring are dual 1.56 or 1.60 diameter. So my valve train is light. About all I could do it titanium retainers and or intake valves.
I have fairly radical lobes out of the comp cams lobe pages. fast lift and slower closing.
I buy say 240 closed 560 pound springs. with installed heights of 2.00 inches then i install them at say 2.05 inches and drop the closed and open rates to say 205 pounds closed. this is plenty good for light weight valve train in a sub 7000 rpm environment.
I use high volume pumps with priority mains oiling systems, 8 quarts, non bypass. I use oil weight to adjust the max oil pressure hot. My motors idle at 1000 ish hot which also helps lube the rollers.
I would say that I have over 30,000 lots of hard miles on each of these motors. It just takes some thought, I use VR1 racing oil. My water temp is always around 200 and I use 195 thermostats to get my chokeless motors up to heat fast before i ever really move them.
I've driven my vette straight through one way 2000 miles with just gas and go only to come home the same way a week later
Well thank you very much Gkull.
Just an FYI. Comp's owner bought Crane 2 years ago. They are all under the same umbrella now.
I sell the Morel lifters. Manufactured in Cleveland, OH by a shop full of Mikes, Georges, Johns, and Tims. One advantage Morel has over any other manufacturer is they have in house heat treat. This 100K square foot shop is self-sufficient when it comes to manufacturing having machining, grinding, and heat treat in house.
Prices on lifters range from $300 a set to $6000 a set depending on if you have a street machine or you have a NASCAR Team.
Yes Crane and Morel's Ultra Pro series does not have the oil transfer band around the lifter like most. The both have an oil port to in line with the oil galleys to transfer oil. The load area towards cam and cylinders retains the full surface area. In spintron testing this design has proved more stable as rpm goes up. More surface area keeps the lifter stable.
cam choice for 383
