Thanks, JB, thats the kind of advice that saves tons of time. I would have been doubtful had I not lived through the experience. But at the next sign of brake issues I'll be sure and checkout VB&P or LoneStar as well.

 

One of the original VB&P Brakes customers here when they first started SS sleeving C2/C3 calipers in the early 80's. Switched to silicone fluid at the same time. Been trouble free all these years. I flush fluid out of boredom. I have recently switched to C6 Brakes since I love to work on my car and the C3 set up didn't offer anything to do.

 

Thanks for posting - yes, I remember Jim doing that. Was hoping someone had done the bigger diameter/bigger multi-piston ones....................

 

Think about this. In 1965, the first year Corvettes came out with disk brakes they were 4-piston calipers. It's only been a few years that even modern performance cars come with 4 piston (or more) calipers. Our old Corvette brakes have been way ahead of the curve for a long time. 427Hotrods tests confirm it. Wilwoods modern brake calipers only beat a 1965 design by 2 feet.

Like I said in my first post go with DOT 5 (silicone) brake fluid especially if your car sits for a long time. You will lose some pedal feel from my experience but I've not felt it was bad or that the brake performance suffered. DOT 5 is hydrophobic, meaning it repels water. DOT 3, which is most common is hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs water even out of the atmosphere. If you get water in your fluid you will lose breaking power and it will also corrode your components.

Make sure your rotor run-out is good. Too much run-out can cause the piston to come out of the bore causing leaks.

I got my SS sleeved o-ring calipers from VB&P. I too don't trust the normal parts retailers with my old muscle car parts especially brakes. Brakes are your #1 safety device. Don't skimp.

 

But I can tell you from personal experience that going to a bigger rotor with the same caliper definitely improves braking distance from initial braking until impending brake lockup/ABS activation. The rate of deceleration is greater for a given amount of brake pedal pressure. (more clamping force with a bigger rotor). I switched my 01 Pontiac Grand Prix with 200,000 miles on the odometer from stock front brakes (11 inch rotor with single piston sliding caliper) to 01 Impala front 12 inch rotors with no other change (same caliper and pad with 01 impala caliper mounting bracket) and the difference is noticeable. I have upgraded the brake system on 2 other cars as well but these upgrades involved not only bigger rotors (much bigger!) but switching from a single piston floating caliper (to dual piston calipers-more pistons) and a bigger sized brake pad so too many variables with these changes to speak to a bigger rotor change alone.

Those upgrades were:

#1 2008 Chrysler 300 Limited:

Front 12 inch vented rotor/single piston floating caliper: Rear 12 inch solid rotor/single piston floating caliper Changed to Hemi brakes (all parts were available for the Hemi brakes from rock auto and are a bolt on change): About $700 for both front and rear but I could have done the exchange for half that amount if I had not opted for red calipers/brackets and top notch high carbon drilled slotted rotors (centrics).

Front 14 inch vented rotor/Dual piston BIG floating caliper with SS flex hoses/Rear 12 inch VENTED rotor/Same single piston floating caliper. Both brakes used same Performance Friction brake pads.

# 2 1994 mustang GT Convertible:

Front 11 inch vented rotor/single piston caliper: Rear 10 inch solid rotor/Single piston floating caliper.

Changed to Cobra front brakes AND SS flex brakes hoses AND Cobra Master Cylinder: (all parts available from rock auto for a 94 mustang Cobra-about $400 for the front cobra system)

Front Cobra 13 inch vented rotor/Cobra Dual piston floating caliper: Rear-NO Change

Both changes #1 and #2 made the car's brake system feel like a completely different car from the OEM setup. Both cars can now stop NOW! It really was worth the effort on both that previously felt like Fred Flintstone braking even under moderate braking....

BTW-I am still waiting for SOMEONE to make an OEM caliper mounting bracket (to use the OEM stock caliper) to the OEM spindle that will allow the use of a 13/14 inch front rotor...waiting...............I bet if someone sold the bracket and 13 or 14 inch rotors for $200 for the kit, they would sell like hotcakes for those of us with 17/18 inch rims.....ANYONE? DUB?

 

The Auto Zone are re-man Delco - Moraine.

I used them on my 71 and 1980 truck . The truck is going on 7 years. The 71 - 2 years.
I've also used them on friends cars with no issues..

I always flush the system when changing Calipers, this may be a reason they have lasted.

 

I put the Wilwood's on my 76 a couple of years back. Previously, I had replaced every caliper and done everything I knew to do and the brakes worked OK, it just always seemed like I was working on them.

I love the Wilwood's. I am not sure why my experience has been different than some others I have read. The brake feel is amazing; It feels more linear than stock (I know nothing changed that should have affected brake feel, but...) . I also got new Wilwood rotors but, kept the stock master cylinder.

The only downside has been that the brake pads are not great in cold weather when you first pull out of the drive way. Other than that, this is one of my favorite upgrades.

2 Years and they are working perfectly.

 

I was wondering if you changed brakes hoses to SS flex lines when you switched to the willwoods and what type of brake pad are you using? Technically, there should be no difference between the stock OEM brakes and willwood with feel if everything changed was the same. As I have said forvever and the data posted in this thread confirms, the willwoods (even the 6 piston front calipers/4 piston rear) with the OEM rotors will perform the same on the street (not racing where the aluminum willwoods have much better heat rejection) and should have no different brake feel.

My Stock SS Calipers/OEM rotors/OEM Master cylinder with SS flex hoses and Performance Friction pads have great feel, firm but linear braking, and great braking performance especially when warm and from high speed.

2 items will change the feel of any braking system with the SAME components:

Stainless Steel flex brake hoses (they will not expand like rubber hoses under pressure) and brake pads. I put SS flex hoses on my 78 in the early 90's on all 4 calipers as a standalone addition to the brake system...no other changes at that time. When I read folks say that SS hoses really do not do anything, they simply do not know what they are talking about. After the change on the 78, I immediately noticed a difference in the feel and linearity of the brake performance. THEY DO HAVE AN EFFECT.

Second, the type of brake material does have a noticeable effect on brake performance, linearity and feel. Pad materials such aramid, organic, semi metallic, metallic, carbon fiber etc all have different feels and performance. There are big differences in brake feel and performance from different brake pads...they are not like some folks feel about tires...all black and round.

I am not fan of ceramic brakes pads since there initial development was for the mass market brake pads to be quiet, rotor friendly, long lasting, low brake dust.....not for performance. There are some that are decent but many better ones in other materials by far.

I mistakenly switched on my 300 to Wagner Thermo Posi Quiets ceramic on the stock front calipers way back and was shocked how bad the braking was versus the Chrysler OEM pad..ripped them out and went with Performance Friction and have never looked back.

Point is there are lots of variables even with the same components...

 

Don't get me wrong, the mass market retailers are not all bad by any means, just hit or miss on quality sometimes. I would not buy C3 parts from them but I have for my Daily Drivers and with some good success. My 01 Grand prix has an autozone NEW replacement starter with a lifetime warranty that I replaced it at 80K with the car now approaching 200K....but to me that is not a safety part and is easy to replace if it fails.

I am sure that the standard floating caliper will be fine but on the C3 2 years is way to early to tell about longevity....my VBP SS calipers were all installed by me in 1985 when I was still young...a little sad....

 

Ok... So what probably happened in my experience is that with the Wilwoods I finally got ALL of the air out and I upgraded pads. No matter what made the difference, they are really good.

 

SS flex lines with the willwoods (?) and what pad material/brand?

 

I just purchased Wilwood six piston calipers for the front, four piston calipers for the rear and 11.75 drilled and slotted rotors all around for my 73 BB. I spent a lot of time researching several different brake systems before I purchased the Wilwoods. First, like all the posts in this thread their techs were supportive of the OEM Corvette brakes for street and spirited driving. The pluses for going with the Wilwoods was the historic seal leaking issues seen on "some OEM brake calipers", the weight savings, the six piston front calipers that would work in the stock rally wheels and most 15" aftermarket wheels and that the kits included new SS brake lines. We discussed my plans and driving habits for my 73 and stated that, yes going to a larger diameter rotor would improve the braking but also told me that going with the bigger rotors for the street and spirited driving was a waste of my money and would not allow the use of most 15" wheels. They were happy to assist me in designing a high tech brake system if I planned to track my car or planned to do so in the future. The Wilwoods will work with all the OEM components. I fit checked the Wilwoods with my aftermarket 15" wheels and they did fit however the tolorances were a bit too tight for my liking so I opted for a set of 17" wheels instead. The Wilwoods did fit check and would work with the stock rally wheels. I am looking forward to see how the new system works when I complete the resto/mod and get my 73 on the road.

 

This will be the next upgrade for my car.....saves about 10 pounds per wheel. This and braided lines are all you need.....assuming you check rotor runout.

Jebby

 

if the brakes are working properly on any of the systems, they will all stop you in about the same distance, no matter if the cost $100, or $10,000...Larger brakes do 1 thing, let you keep stopping over and over and over again on the track with out having the brakes fade out.
The only way, other than bigger stickier tires, to get shorter braking is by changing the distribution/proportioning valve with an adjustable knee break valve. thats it. period.


My braking system:
Full wildwood big brake kit with 6 piston fronts, all 4 with 14" rotors
SS braided brake lines
Hydroboost booster
Willwood proportioning knee brake valve
Wildwood M/C

 

I think pad compound can affect stopping distance...

 

not really.. as long as you can lock up the brakes, or that is come as close to possible to locking them up with out actually locking them up, then it is all tires,,, brake compound will effect the ease of braking, the longevity of the pads and the amount of times they can be hit on the track and not fade. But they will not stop the car any faster... that is all rubber (tires) and proportioning (valve)

 

The thing about the Wilwood's to me is 90% weight and 10% looks......
Hold a 10 lb. weight out straight and shake it up and down....then imagine your suspension over bumps doing this many times a second.

That and the fact that they are precision machined and brand new.
If you have $1000 bucks this is an awesome upgrade to me.

Jebby

 

Just noticed my ds front caliper is leaking while i was under the car over the weekend. Ive never been satisfied with the brakes on this car, the problems i had with it now this. Starting to think about upgrading to aftermarket alum calipers for the weight savings, they wont rust and cause problems like these pieces of f$%$%NG S%^& stock replacements. I was told they are orings but at this point Its not going to matter.

 

There are clearly benefits to larger rotors for those who are looking for track use. Improved efficiency and better thermal management.

However with a simple pad change you can achieve plenty of braking for the casual weekend racer AND retain the factory 15" wheels.

A swap to D8 pads in the BP20 compound will wake things up under moderate use. A move to Poly A for those with true race rubber will far exceed anything the factory ever offered. *But be hard on rotors under low temps.

Weight wise I won't argue the mass number. Remember also that the aluminum body calipers (especially the clears) will dissipate heat far better than the iron parts. *PC while nice can trap a bit of heat.

For the value vs the iron parts, serviced or not...it's a cost that is hard to argue with. VALUE PRICE

 

What impressed me the most was the tech's I talked to were helpful, knowledgeable and did not talk down other brake manufactures or the OEM systems. Granted they are in southern California and I'm in the northern part of California, but I placed my order on Tuesday and the three Wilwood boxes were sitting on my front door on Thursday. Great customer service.