I have a '75 and '77 and between the two I spend about $500 every year on brakes with random calipers, boosters, lines and so on. Apparently this is a common issue with C3. Yet, on my C5, I've spent just about nothing since 2004.

Since neither car is very original, what are the cons of replacing the C3 brakes with C5 stuff? Parts (calipers, pads, booster) seem to cost the same for C5 as for the C3 and seemingly require no maintenance.

Thanks in advance.

-Vlad

 

If you are having C3 brake problems like you describe every year on both cars, SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY wrong with both brake systems. I have the OEM brake booster, OEM master cylinder, OEM hard brake lines, OEM brake proportioning valve and Stainless Steel VBP calipers put on in 1985 on my 78. With the exception of changing the brakes fluid every 4-5 years, I have done nothing to my brakes in over 30 years.

I would suggest getting the OEM brake system functioning correctly by someone who knows what they are doing since with 4 piston Fixed Racing style calipers at EACH wheel, front and year, with 12 inch vented calipers at EACH wheel, front and rear, with a high performance brake pad and SS steel flex hoses to the calipers, the C3 system even today is pretty much state of the art compared to more modern cars for any type of street driving. The C5 brakes are very good (Front Sliding dual piston caliper and 13 inch rotor with Single piston sliding caliper in the rear with 12 inch vented rotor) but certainly not great..its not until the C6Z06 brakes did corvette brakes really step up to ultra high performance on the street. Heck, my 2008 Chrysler 300 has 14 inch front vented rotors with HUGH dual piston sliding calipers with 12 inch Vented rear rotors with a single piston sliding caliper in the rear.

 

Vlad,
Do not be fooled....just because you have not spent money on the brakes on your C5....does not mean that maintenance procedures should not be done. Because ...even though you may not have a problem now...if you fail to do what is recommended in your owners manual...you might find that the brake repair you do have to do on your C5 may make you regret not doing maintenance. Just because it is not broken does not mean it is all good.




If the brake system is correct in regards to the run-out of bearings and rotors...and if the car is driven at least once a month....and the brake fluid is not being neglected....you should not have severe issues that constantly cause you to put money into the system.

DUB

 

FYI Dub....My 78 sits every year in the garage from December through March (4 months, some years longer) and I don't touch the brakes during this time...have never had an issue....I have the OEM lip seals..no O ring seals back in 1985 when the VBP SS calipers were installed by me...LOL

 

I did mine 4 years ago with new calipers and lines. Haven't touched it since.

I guess I should bleed them this spring but that's chump change.

 

Well color me jealous - I've replaced the master cylinder and brake booster on both. I've had the oring seals go bad (not leaking but pouring) on both several times in maybe 6 years that I've owned a C3.

 

One of the original Stainless Steel Brakes Corp customers here when they first started SS sleeving the C2/C3 calipers early 80's. Rebuilt the calipers with Delco lip seals and switched to silicone fluid. Been trouble free all these years. I flush the fluid out of boredom.

 

Back when I was trying to keep my car original I too would have to attend to a leaking caliper about annually. I rebuilt calipers, I purchased rebuilt calipers, I purchased advanced seals and stainless sleeve models and leak would eventually pop up somewhere. I finally gave up and installed the bolt-on Wilwood aluminum calipers a few years ago and have not looked back. No leaks, stop great and dropped a ton of weight.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what did you replace beyond the calipers (and which model?) - did you do anything about the master cylinder, booster, lines, etc? On one I had the brake line actually snap and after replacing them all with ss haven't had an issue - calipers, still, not sure..

-Vlad

 

They are bolt-on and 100% compatible with all existing hardware with the exception of the flex line, which it comes with (so you would loose your investment in your existing SS flex lines). They come with pads. The model is D8-4.

 

Hopefully someone one day will do detailed a 'side by side' comparison with several identical C3's - one with stock brakes - one with Willwoods - and a third with larger disc's like Baer or similar. I'm just not convinced that stock C3 brakes even with HiPo pads are up to the job (certainly not when compared to even ordinary sedan vehicles today)

 

Years ago I replaced all 4 corners with o-ring SS sleeved stock style calipers and steel braided flex lines. I also run DOT5 fluid to keep moisture out. Never had any problems with them since.

 

It has been done...here are the results from a forum member with willwood 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears with the stock 11.75 inch rotors:



This is a test by forum member Jim-AKA "427Hotrod"
Wilwood vs Originals

Here's the article- http://www.carsandparts.com/Articles...e-braking-test
It's a very good read.....here's the numbers- not perfectly scientific
STOCK Calipers-
•151 ft., 2 in. - Nice quick stop to get an idea of how hard I could push it on that surface.
•123 ft., 7 in. - Worked it much harder. No brake lockup or drama.
•118 ft., 3 in. - Back to back. Now I knew I could work it harder.
•109 ft., 5 in. - Hit it hard and kept it right on the edge of lockup. Never could repeat it.
•135 ft., 1 in. - Real hard and locked up front wheels early and rears near the end.
•111 ft., 4 in. - Very similar to test four.
•113 ft., 2 in. - Another good one!

Wilwood-D8-6 and D8-4 calipers

•130 ft., 9 in. - Good feel but sliding at the end.
•129 ft., 6 in. - Nearly identical.
•115 ft., 5 in. - Finding the “sweet spot”.
•109 ft., 4 in. - Maybe the pads are getting “bedded”?
•107 ft., 8 in. - Bang! Best ever!
•109 ft., 11 in. - Still working great!
•109 ft., 3 in. - Did it again!

Not much difference in ultimate braking distance BUT more consistency from the Willwood's.

Going to a 13 or 14 inch front rotor in front would certainly reduce the braking distances on both setups.

The only way to significantly reduce a C3 braking distance beyond the above^ would be wider, sticker tires and/or a caliper with a bigger brake pad making contact with the rotor, the latter option I do not believes exists since even Baer brakes still uses the stock size brake pad (?).

My stock C3 brakes with Performance Friction pads with nominal heat in them along with SS flex brake hoses and 255/45/17 ZR tires is dramatically better than braking with organic pads and 255/60/15 S/T rated tires....

BTW-in 1978, Road and Track magazine recorded 244 ft for the 78 C3 with only 2 cars of all the cars they tested over the prior 2 years beating the brake distances from 80-0 MPH, a Porsche 930 turbo (239ft) and a Ferrari Boxer 512 (242 ft). Pretty impressive for the time...

 

I agree with you that do not HAVE to be driven or have the brake pedal pressed at least once a month. But I do know that a Corvette sitting for extended periods of time CAN allow the lipped seal to stick and tear when the pedal is pressed. It does not happen all the time...but it does happen...which is why I mentioned it.

BUT this philosophy also does not take into account the quality of the brake fluid that was in the cars that the caliper began to leak after sitting for a while and then the brake pedal was pressed....so...it can also be a combination of bad /dirty fluid that has been neglected....bearing and rotors that are not correct and also sitting.

Who knows....but I still tell my customers to try to drive the car at least once a month if at all possible....even if it is backing it up and down the driveway and gettign it to operating temperature.

DUB

 

Good point Dub on pressing the pedala few times once a month. I do this throughout the winter storage season and have had no issues. For the OP. You can spend your money on aftermarket brake systems but the oem brakes are up to the task. Lots of us here running oem without issue. It's a great brake system and pretty simple in design.

 

I actually think that making sure the brake fluid is changed every 4-5 years has been the most important procedure to ensure the C3 brakes function correctly more so than anything else. My car sits 99.99% of the time in the garage away from the elements and usually sits 3-4 months during the winter with no movement....been this way for the last 35 years...........zero brakes issues

 

Other than changing the brake fluid every 5 years I've had no issues on the 71, 72 or 85. All have factory brake system's, C3's are SS with the O rings.


So far so good, 72 I've had for 16+ years..

 

I work on the factory brake set-ups and when correct...they stop very very well.

I guess it may also depend on what the owner of the car wants or gets out of their more current year model car.

YES...but what I DO KNOW about you is that you do maintenance that some people simply dismiss. THAT is what can make it so you system is working without any hiccups.

DUB

 

Hmm. My experience is new, and a work in progess. I've had my 74 for just over two years; its been in project mode so virtually no road time. One of the first items I did on the restoration was to replace all 4 calipers from Autozone. Same with the stock master cylinder. The pedal felt great. HOWEVER, *BOTH* rear calipers developed leaks within one year. After reading the other posts, it could well be from lack of use. Autozone has a lifetime warranty on the calipers. After I discovered the leaks, I told Autozone about it and asked them to replace the pads too, since fluid got on them. They did. But I was still agravated because I had to paint them again. Oh well, its part of the process.

We'll see if it happens again. If it does, its time for Wilwoods.

 

Take this advice for whatever it is worth but I would not buy SS calipers for your C3 from autozone or any other mass market auto retailer whether the calipers have a lifetime warranty or not. I generally will not buy anything from a mass auto retailer unless it is a name brand product like a Gates belt, Wagner brake pad, etc. I would guess that those calipers are Chinese castings (or Delco Morraines that may or may not be sleeved correctly), made with who knows what type of seals and pistons. There are many corvette specialty parts company's like Vette Brakes and Products, Stainless Steel works, Lone Star etc that specialize in C3 brake parts. My 1985 SS calipers are from VBP. I own a few cars besides my corvettes and avoid mass retail parts like the plague. Ask me how I know and why?

Short story off topic...My buddy fixes Volvos for a living...rebuilds wrecks, body work, mechanical etc. He was sourcing his steering racks from Advanced auto for about 2 years which come with a lifetime warranty rebuilt but the part failure rate was about 80% within 6 months...sometimes upon initial install of the rebuilt steering racks. He refuses to source that part any more from them..buyer beware.

Unfortunately, you are already into the autozone calipers but next time something like this situation arises ask the forum or go to a reputable corvette specialty parts supplier who are often more expensive but generally you get what you pay for....

https://www.vbandp.com/auto-parts/c2...fg-detail.html

Limited Lifetime Warranty and from their product description:

This is the ONLY caliper with a 4 Micron finished sleeve for great performance