New Borgeson Box Binding
02-18-2017, 09:03 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
New Borgeson Box Binding
Hey guys - steering is new to me, so I just made a video to show what I'm probably going to describe poorly.
I installed my new Borgeson box this afternoon at long last. All the existing system was removed, the steering column was shortened, and the new box and rag joint were installed loosely, then everything was tightened up. No hoses have been attached and no fluid is in the system. At the time of video, the pittman arm is not attached to the drag link adapter - the pittman arm is free floating on the steering linkage end.
Here is the state of the steering: when OFF center, the steering seems very responsive - any movement of the wheel transfers through the steering box into the pittman arm. When approaching center turning CLOCKWISE from full left stop, the box appears to gradually start binding. When in this area of travel that binds, I can wiggle the wheel 2-3" in either direction, and that movement doesn't transfer through the box to the pittman arm at all. The steering gets "loose" as the box gets "tight". Then after passing the center of travel, the wheel eases back to normal responsive.
When turning the wheel COUNTERCLOCKWISE, it gets weird. As the wheel travel approaches center, the box starts binding a little more sharply than the other direction, and rather than easing off, it suddenly lets out with a "thunk". When you see this from underneath, you can see the box start to push the worm shaft out into the rag joint, then slip back into place with the thunk.
So that's where I'm at. My questions are:
1. Is this normal?
2. What causes it?
3. Is it an error that I can fix with the box in the car?
4. Whatever else wisdom you guys have to shower on me about this. It was an expensive purchase, and I want to make sure I do it right. Depending on the answers here, I may contact Borgeson about it on Monday, but I wanted to check here first.
I installed my new Borgeson box this afternoon at long last. All the existing system was removed, the steering column was shortened, and the new box and rag joint were installed loosely, then everything was tightened up. No hoses have been attached and no fluid is in the system. At the time of video, the pittman arm is not attached to the drag link adapter - the pittman arm is free floating on the steering linkage end.
Here is the state of the steering: when OFF center, the steering seems very responsive - any movement of the wheel transfers through the steering box into the pittman arm. When approaching center turning CLOCKWISE from full left stop, the box appears to gradually start binding. When in this area of travel that binds, I can wiggle the wheel 2-3" in either direction, and that movement doesn't transfer through the box to the pittman arm at all. The steering gets "loose" as the box gets "tight". Then after passing the center of travel, the wheel eases back to normal responsive.
When turning the wheel COUNTERCLOCKWISE, it gets weird. As the wheel travel approaches center, the box starts binding a little more sharply than the other direction, and rather than easing off, it suddenly lets out with a "thunk". When you see this from underneath, you can see the box start to push the worm shaft out into the rag joint, then slip back into place with the thunk.
So that's where I'm at. My questions are:
1. Is this normal?
2. What causes it?
3. Is it an error that I can fix with the box in the car?
4. Whatever else wisdom you guys have to shower on me about this. It was an expensive purchase, and I want to make sure I do it right. Depending on the answers here, I may contact Borgeson about it on Monday, but I wanted to check here first.
Last edited by loquinho; 02-18-2017 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Couldn't get the video to work
02-18-2017, 09:25 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
I think what your doing as a test is wrong.
Without fluid pressure the ball bearings in the worm gear have no lubrication or pressure and they are binding.
Without fluid pressure the ball bearings in the worm gear have no lubrication or pressure and they are binding.
02-19-2017, 12:17 AM
#3
Steering should be smooth and bind free regardless if it has fluid pressure or not especially since there is no load on gear box. The way the stub shaft pushes out it almost seems like there is a foreign object stuck between the stub shaft and worm shaft. Either way it's not right. For as much as this cost I'm sure whomever you got it from will make it right. Good luck.
02-19-2017, 10:11 AM
#4
Racer
Hey guys - steering is new to me, so I just made a video to show what I'm probably going to describe poorly.
I installed my new Borgeson box this afternoon at long last. All the existing system was removed, the steering column was shortened, and the new box and rag joint were installed loosely, then everything was tightened up. No hoses have been attached and no fluid is in the system. At the time of video, the pittman arm is not attached to the drag link adapter - the pittman arm is free floating on the steering linkage end.
Here is the state of the steering: when OFF center, the steering seems very responsive - any movement of the wheel transfers through the steering box into the pittman arm. When approaching center turning CLOCKWISE from full left stop, the box appears to gradually start binding. When in this area of travel that binds, I can wiggle the wheel 2-3" in either direction, and that movement doesn't transfer through the box to the pittman arm at all. The steering gets "loose" as the box gets "tight". Then after passing the center of travel, the wheel eases back to normal responsive.
When turning the wheel COUNTERCLOCKWISE, it gets weird. As the wheel travel approaches center, the box starts binding a little more sharply than the other direction, and rather than easing off, it suddenly lets out with a "thunk". When you see this from underneath, you can see the box start to push the worm shaft out into the rag joint, then slip back into place with the thunk.
So that's where I'm at. My questions are:
1. Is this normal?
2. What causes it?
3. Is it an error that I can fix with the box in the car?
4. Whatever else wisdom you guys have to shower on me about this. It was an expensive purchase, and I want to make sure I do it right. Depending on the answers here, I may contact Borgeson about it on Monday, but I wanted to check here first.
https://youtu.be/KzQkjpnCIKQ
I installed my new Borgeson box this afternoon at long last. All the existing system was removed, the steering column was shortened, and the new box and rag joint were installed loosely, then everything was tightened up. No hoses have been attached and no fluid is in the system. At the time of video, the pittman arm is not attached to the drag link adapter - the pittman arm is free floating on the steering linkage end.
Here is the state of the steering: when OFF center, the steering seems very responsive - any movement of the wheel transfers through the steering box into the pittman arm. When approaching center turning CLOCKWISE from full left stop, the box appears to gradually start binding. When in this area of travel that binds, I can wiggle the wheel 2-3" in either direction, and that movement doesn't transfer through the box to the pittman arm at all. The steering gets "loose" as the box gets "tight". Then after passing the center of travel, the wheel eases back to normal responsive.
When turning the wheel COUNTERCLOCKWISE, it gets weird. As the wheel travel approaches center, the box starts binding a little more sharply than the other direction, and rather than easing off, it suddenly lets out with a "thunk". When you see this from underneath, you can see the box start to push the worm shaft out into the rag joint, then slip back into place with the thunk.
So that's where I'm at. My questions are:
1. Is this normal?
2. What causes it?
3. Is it an error that I can fix with the box in the car?
4. Whatever else wisdom you guys have to shower on me about this. It was an expensive purchase, and I want to make sure I do it right. Depending on the answers here, I may contact Borgeson about it on Monday, but I wanted to check here first.
https://youtu.be/KzQkjpnCIKQ
02-20-2017, 10:22 AM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
I contacted Borgeson this morning and sent them a link to the Youtube video. They asked me a couple questions about it, and they're having their guys check out the video and troubleshoot it - they seemed very responsive and willing to help. I'll let you all know when I hear something.
02-20-2017, 10:35 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
It looks like your on "center" adjustment is wrong? Where it thunks, is that the center position of the wheel being straight? Something is definitely wrong. Since you contacted the manufacturer, I'm sure they can help. Good luck and post up the fix. 
02-22-2017, 10:27 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
After video review, Borgeson has come to the conclusion that it appears to be a manufacturing/ assembly fault on their end. Gil, who I spoke with on the phone, said that their technical department thinks it's a missing internal snap ring somewhere, but he's not certain.
The plan is that I will go onto Borgeson's website and purchase a second box. It will be sent to me with a prepaid return label to send back the faulty box in the original package for the new one. Once received, they will refund the full amount of purchase and any shipping to my card.
I'm really glad I tested it before hooking everything up and putting fluid in the system.
The plan is that I will go onto Borgeson's website and purchase a second box. It will be sent to me with a prepaid return label to send back the faulty box in the original package for the new one. Once received, they will refund the full amount of purchase and any shipping to my card.
I'm really glad I tested it before hooking everything up and putting fluid in the system.