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Original Super 10 Differential build

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Old 06-28-2017, 07:31 PM   #41
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What are you guys cryro-ing?

Curious the gears I assume have a heat treat, the forged spiders also. The Posi in the construction I would assume also, not sure!
The polish I thought was more to eliminate stressed edges and imperfections in the casting! I never thought heat as it will heat up to the temp of the oil in general!

Cool sharing! I am going to have to look up REM polishing is as I just assumed I know what this term process is, but have never done any of it or what it would do to benefit the durability.
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Originally Posted by TCracingCA View Post
Ok REM Polishing not technically a polishing but a coating process or surfacing process. I was way off.

I love the pictures, now that I am on a computer where they will load. Was driving me crazy on the iPhone, but it was well worth the wait. I have to go back up and thank all of the post. Cool stuff being shared here! Maybe I missed getting the answers to with all of the loading the phone was trying to do, to my small questions!
Thanks Derek for your posts.
I'll ask Gary to answer your questions. Cryo is deep freeze treatment that hardens the steel but REM polishing is like you said a coating process that is supposed to add super slickness to the metal.
I can certainly justify the Cryo treatment cost for this project but see no need for REM polishing.
Thanks for your interest in my thread.

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Old 06-30-2017, 03:00 PM   #42
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Default Follow up about hardening processes

What I really like about dealing with Gary Ramadei.....his communication.

Here is Gary's follow up comments about the different hardening processes done in my build.

From Gary..

Toms axles are soft faced, to use them on a drag car only with limited mileage won't be an issue. For a street car you have to harden and temper them otherwise they will wear rapidly. So your axle faces were hardened in Dec. The splines are hardened by Tom's already so it's just the faces that have to be corrected.

Cryo treating can be viewed as hardening as well but it's more about the molecules of the metal becoming denser I believe after a very slow bath down to -300*F and soaking for 48 hrs and a slow thaw. There are more in depth explanations of the whole process online, bottom line is it does help. Same for REM polishing it works but it all comes down to budget for the build and now to throw money at something that really isn't needed for the application- like a RH steel cap- makes no difference having one yet some feel it's stronger with one - it is not.

Cryo parts are back and Gary will continue shortly with my build.
I don't need mine right away so we are bumping mine so he can do 3 steering boxes that others need asap.

Stay tuned.......

Happy 4th to you all.

Bman

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Old 07-03-2017, 05:20 PM   #43
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Default Details of cryo, polishing and POR treatment of axles

Seems like Gary always has time to work on my project even when he is "off"......lol
These pics show the details of polishing after receiving back from cryo treatment.
He also applies POR15 with cast blast spray as final coat on the axles.

From Gary...

Hi Dennis,

Once I got the parts back in from Cryo I final polished the case and etched, POR15 and top coated the axles. Once the paint was hard I polished the axles in the lathe. You can see the case looks grayer in the unpolished areas and now I can final tune it. I final tune after cryo treating since there is a usually a slight difference afterwards with the previous fit. This one is the same, if I didn't account for this and left it as it was the tune would be off.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:54 PM   #44
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Default Latest updates - ring gear prep

Its been awhile for me as my wife has been having several health issues. Knee replacement scheduled for Aug 4. And now she has fainting/blacking out spells. Need to stay close by to catch her. So vette project is definitely on hold for at least August.

That has not slowed Gary down though.
He sent me two sets of pics in last couple of days.

Here is his first batch along with the narrative.

Enjoy!

HI Dennis,
I didn't want to bomb you with a lot of emails this week so here is where I ended up tonight. The posi is tuned, although these spiders you supplied took a little more time to dial in. I had to fit them to the axles as there were some burrs on the spline, that was before I sent them out for cryo treating. The tune is good, as you will see on Tom's you-tube video. One thing to note with tuning is the spiders are not match machined/lapped like a ring and pinion set is. They were never intended to be set to tolerances closer then the stock spec of 001-008". What this means is very simply there will be variance through 360* rotation with them. That is why axle end play may vary a few thousands through 360* as well.

The 411 Tom's ring gear is installed. The mating surfaces were polished in the lathe and hand stoned before installing the new ring gear. I only use ARP ring gear bolts, in all my builds. This is another area where knock off artist cut corners and use the common kit fully threaded hex heads. For about $30 or so it makes no sense not to use them, other then boosting profit. These bolts were also cryo treated. I use Loctite #271 on the bolts, after cleaning them with Acetone. The last thing I did was radius the RG tooth edges. These are sharp and the ends have burrs. Now this isn't required but it's something I like to do. I have found new gear mesh cause noise from burrs or high spots on the edges.


Gary
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:57 PM   #45
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Default more pics

finish install of RG
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:01 PM   #46
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I'll post the 2nd batch later.

Wait until you see the video of it spinning freely with just a push by hand....AWESOME!

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Old 07-17-2017, 09:58 PM   #47
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I'll post the 2nd batch later.

Wait until you see the video of it spinning freely with just a push by hand....AWESOME!

Bman (Dennis)
Cool Dennis, thanks for clarifying the cryro needs and for the cool tech thread! The questions were because I just like to learn about new stuff! I have heard of guys doing this treatment with the engine parts, but haven't read up on all of that yet! I think Tom's still offers some heat treating! I definitely will read up more on Cryro! Interesting process! I guess I have always been more of a Forged in Fire type of guy! Good TV show too! Probably my favorite at the moment!

Hey I saw you sold your 1480 kit??? I have 1350 Toms kit in the car now, but what on the trailing arm with the 1480 was hitting? Or are the 1480 axles just not designed to go into the stock Bearing housing supports?

I like the Mark Williams U-joints currently, as I think they are currently the best USA made units around!

I have the ARP bolts also (I think they are the 12 point heads, have to go look and count the head). In an old article on assembling these, it talked about the Bolt head clearance and the ARPs are very low profile heads! Also they aren't as long and pretty closely flush on the other side! With the interference fit of the pressed on gear ring and 12 bolts, I never thought to heat or cryro treat them! Your great builder takes no chances! The level of detail is impressive!

I also came up with my Series 4 case for the 12-Bolt conversion. Good ones aren't really just laying around, as in days past! I got a 1971 AC code (4.11) in perfect condition. Anyone shopping for these, watch for the mounting bolts holes being all stripped out! I looked at a couple more, and it was obvious that the internals from the past had grenaded! And one case was a Series 3, but stamped with a Series 4 stamping! Probably why it was getting sold! I couldn't let that kind of dishonestly go and had to tell the guy he was a creep! I hope he doesn't rip off the next guy and correctly represents it as a Series 3. Naturally he was also claiming it was a former L88 car that it came from! Guys just watch out, out there! The thieves are out there! Make sure you measure things, and not just trust people!

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Old 07-18-2017, 01:09 PM   #48
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Cool Dennis, thanks for clarifying the cryro needs and for the cool tech thread! The questions were because I just like to learn about new stuff! I have heard of guys doing this treatment with the engine parts, but haven't read up on all of that yet! I think Tom's still offers some heat treating! I definitely will read up more on Cryro! Interesting process! I guess I have always been more of a Forged in Fire type of guy! Good TV show too! Probably my favorite at the moment!

Hey I saw you sold your 1480 kit??? I have 1350 Toms kit in the car now, but what on the trailing arm with the 1480 was hitting? Or are the 1480 axles just not designed to go into the stock Bearing housing supports?

I like the Mark Williams U-joints currently, as I think they are currently the best USA made units around!

I have the ARP bolts also (I think they are the 12 point heads, have to go look and count the head). In an old article on assembling these, it talked about the Bolt head clearance and the ARPs are very low profile heads! Also they aren't as long and pretty closely flush on the other side! With the interference fit of the pressed on gear ring and 12 bolts, I never thought to heat or cryro treat them! Your great builder takes no chances! The level of detail is impressive!

I also came up with my Series 4 case for the 12-Bolt conversion. Good ones aren't really just laying around, as in days past! I got a 1971 AC code (4.11) in perfect condition. Anyone shopping for these, watch for the mounting bolts holes being all stripped out! I looked at a couple more, and it was obvious that the internals from the past had grenaded! And one case was a Series 3, but stamped with a Series 4 stamping! Probably why it was getting sold! I couldn't let that kind of dishonestly go and had to tell the guy he was a creep! I hope he doesn't rip off the next guy and correctly represents it as a Series 3. Naturally he was also claiming it was a former L88 car that it came from! Guys just watch out, out there! The thieves are out there! Make sure you measure things, and not just trust people!
Hi Derek,
Txs for the comments and info.

I did sell the 1480 setup I had. It was not a complete setup anyway. The issue is not the bearing supports but the trailing arm housing not being wide enough for the 1/2 shafts mounting end. My friend Bill is going thru that challenge right now with his Ridetech trailing arms.
The 1480 is overkill for my project anyway. My hp goal is 600hp so the Super 10 as done by Gary Ramadei is definitely capable of handling what I will do with it.
And yes he does a super job along with teaching all of us neophytes. His attention to detail is amazing. Wait until you see the next batch of pics along with his narrative.

You are right to call out that guy. There are a few scammers out there that make it tough to trust online strangers. One we know just got kicked off for his shenanigans.

Good luck with your project(s).

Bman (Dennis)
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:23 PM   #49
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Default Fitting the end cap and video

Now its time to fit the end cap. As Gary points out it needs to "rock" when fitted so that when fully installed it holds the race in place.

From Gary..

HI Dennis,
Today I final fit the caps for 001" rock on both caps at each hole. What this means is simply the caps are fit at "rock" which means one end of the cap is flat against the pad and the other end is up.- like a kids seesaw. The gap at the high end is measured by feeler gauge drag at 001" so that when the cap is installed and parallel it will be 0005" and clinch the race to keep it from spinning under load. If there was no gap the race would spin, if there is more then 001-0015" then the clinch will be too tight and the bearing will burn up in use. I also do another little trick at final assembly to strengthen them up. This process is not new or something I came up with, it's been done for over 50 years if not more. There are other ways to fit the caps like boring them in place like the factory did but I like the method I use with a surface grinder. Final fit should not be done on a mill. Most factory caps are in this spec if they had not been swapped around or replaced. Your RH cap didn't require much to dial it in. The steel cap is a Tom's cap you supplied. They come in oversize for final fitment to each housing. I have been asked many times if I need to machine the housing pads and never had to. Now they will vary from one housing to another but I have never had pads off from LH to RH side in a housing and I have build a lot of them. The instructions that sometimes come with the caps explain to file fit the cap to the housing and to use a hand drill to drill the tap size holes. I never would recommend someone doing that, yes it can be done but the best way is to machine fit them. The test was a simple hand spin at full rotation and it was prefect as you can see in the video.

The bearings used are USA made Timkens, no sense in cutting corners here either. I believe Timken are still the best out there and all I use. The originals were Hyatt and later New Departure Hyatt (NDH)- now long gone.

Now I am going to radius the teeth of the new pinion and start to prepare it for patterning but I probably won't get to pattern them today.

Hope things are getting better.
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:28 PM   #50
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Default Bearing install and video

Gary mates up the races to fit flush and then test spins the posi.

2 pics show the machining of the steel cap on his machinery
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File Type: avi Spin test fully torqued 100 ft-lb.AVI (3.11 MB, 24 views)
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:32 PM   #51
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Default spin test file

The spin test file is a large file video.
You need to open that separately in order to see it.
No sound though......

Enjoy!

The spin test is done with the caps fully torqued down to 100ft/lbs.

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Old 07-18-2017, 01:38 PM   #52
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Some of the pics are out of sequence because they get sent as a batch. Gary puts a title for each pic but there is no way to show the title as the pic is all that gets downloaded.
If you are unsure of what the pic is showing, shoot me an inquiry and I'll look up the pic title.
Otherwise you can see how detailed the work is especially when it comes to checking fitment.
Txs for looking.


Dennis
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:43 PM   #53
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Tip......the .001 "feeler gauge" is actually .001 shim stock.
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:20 PM   #54
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Pretty cool to see the progress.
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:38 PM   #55
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Just so I feel like I am contributing-- Without the plate and springs, to get the preload Tom's recommended starting with .045 of shims per side and add shims till it can barely be turned by hand.

I know for tuning these Posi units, he had a video on the procedure on line for anyone else.

I am sure Dennis's friend (Gary) knows all of this in his sleep!

I also have to go home and look, because the ring bolts I have are even lower profile than in Dennis/Gary's pictures I think! I will go get it off of the shelf and look.

Also the guy with the phony stamped Posi was in person face to face. I have a good bullshit meter, and something told me to measure the case! I would have never saw the guy again!

Those pilot bolts in the picture above are cool for alignment seating the ring gear!

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Old 07-19-2017, 05:08 AM   #56
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People fainting and health!

I dont know the condition but sometimes people can be depleted of minerals like potassium etc. Might start with doubling up with a multi-vitamin and what I suggest next related to staying away from sugar and carbs, etc to not have body stay acidic and prone to health complications! Like with things like diabetes and cancer, etc. I had a big near death accident, as close as you can come and mega surgeries and metal holding me together and went from running marathons to overweight and health failing, and what I call organ failure bad breath (Keto acidosis). Before organs got too bad, worked off PH charts to try to go alkaline in my diet and I have come a long way in reversing all of the problems related to stamina. Faint headed, just two symptoms of many, and the organ complications, etc. Not fun stuff to eat avocados, spinach, raw everything like mushrooms, a lot of spices, 100% lemon concentrate (too lazy to squeeze that many lemons) in unsweetened water, etc, but 3-1/2 months of it and it did wonders! Pass this along, hope it helps others!

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Old 07-19-2017, 07:53 AM   #57
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Why do I get the feeling that my "next" rear end will be a Super 10 built by Gary? I hope my current rear end gives me service long enough to do it "bigger" in the future. Thanks for sharing this Dennis, very informative and I am all in.

Best regards,

David
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:48 PM   #58
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Why do I get the feeling that my "next" rear end will be a Super 10 built by Gary? I hope my current rear end gives me service long enough to do it "bigger" in the future. Thanks for sharing this Dennis, very informative and I am all in.

Best regards,

David
Unfortunately with a lot of this type of stuff, the one or two guys that have these parts and the know-how to machine and manufacture, if they retire it is all gone.

I have a lot of stuff like that, but the cool thing is that C2/C3 Unique Performance parts seem to be going through a Renaissance lately. The vintage is back. I think at this moment, there is a lot of cool stuff coming out!

It is a roll of the dice! Certain things that I wanted for my cars, I fought and saved for and had hoped to get prior to the discontinuation of a product line or take over and farming it out to the Chinese for manufacturing.

This thread is honest, and real old school American craftsmanship and precision machining, and "TLC" that is a dying thing, in this plug and play world.

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Old 07-20-2017, 06:12 PM   #59
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Unfortunately with a lot of this type of stuff, the one or two guys that have these parts and the know-how to machine and manufacture, if they retire it is all gone.

I have a lot of stuff like that, but the cool thing is that C2/C3 Unique Performance parts seem to be going through a Renaissance lately. The vintage is back. I think at this moment, there is a lot of cool stuff coming out!

It is a roll of the dice! Certain things that I wanted for my cars, I fought and saved for and had hoped to get prior to the discontinuation of a product line or take over and farming it out to the Chinese for manufacturing.

This thread is honest, and real old school American craftsmanship and precision machining, and "TLC" that is a dying thing, in this plug and play world.
I have spend some time with Gary and thought the same, that if anything happens to this guy, God forbid, we are all Sh*t out of luck. Gary does not only diff's, but 4 speeds, steering boxes, trailing arms/wheel bearings.....oh boy!
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Old 07-20-2017, 10:02 PM   #60
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Just gotta say Ive never seen or heard any body blow there own horn on something as simple as these rear ends. Tuning? I dont think so lapping is the word.
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