dmruschell

Those pictures look just like the Liberty Performance heads I pulled off of my engine earlier this month. They were also 200cc and no name stamped at the ends of the heads.

They appeared to be the same castings as the Pro Comp heads (again, no name stamped at the end of the head) that were in my engine before that (I didn't pick either set; I trusted my engine builder).

Both sets ran fine and made decent power. However, I do like the 180cc AFRs I'm running now a bit better. They make the same SOTP top end power, but with more crisp response in the low/mid rpm range.

HeadsU.P.

Let me give you the heads up on purchasing aluminum heads that not everybody will tell you. After you have spent $8-14 hundred you will likely need $80-$100 head gaskets that are compatable for the mating of aluminum to cast iron block. (they heat up at different rates) Then you will likely need longer pushrods $80-$100 because the rocker stud pad is higher. Then, you will need better (ARPs) headbolts with washers designed for aluminum heads, another $110. So, you see, the add-ons add up. But, they are worth every penny, good investment if you don't get carried away.

And just FYI, some people think Pro-Comp heads and ProMaxx heads are the same. They are two different companies. ProMaxx is the former Patriot heads. Its my understanding the foundries are in China but all the machining is done right here in the USA.

Primoz

Very well written. OK, on the other hand what would cast iron heads bring to the table? I looked at the aluminum ones because of the weight savings what about the iron ones?

jim2527

Iron Vortecs out perform every old iron head ever made. Period.

dmruschell

Oneof those hot ridding magazines (I forget which) had a Dyno shootout between a set of Dart Iron Eagles and their aluminum counterparts. The difference was negligible.

I just recently had an engine built with iron heads. I wanted the 165cc Dart Iron Eagles, but discovered that the Summit brand iron heads are the exact same heads (just restricted to a 72cc chamber) for a few hundred $$ less. They even have a Dart part number stamped into the heads. If your valve lift is under .510, those heads would be a great choice. I would choose those over a Chinese aluminum head any day.

cardo0

Here's a HP change calculator when comparing changes in compression ratio from Wallace Racing:http://www.wallaceracing.com/hp-cr-chg.php
Its less than a 5hp difference going from 10.5 down to 9.5 c.r..

It seems I read about more enthusiasts overseas getting ripped off on fraudulent parts than I do with stateside enthusiasts. I can recall a German owner that paid top dollar for a junk unusable 400" block and shipping from some east coast shop with a convincing website. Ebay heads that the manufacturer won't even put his name on seems like it would more likely be poor quality part disguised with a lot of desirable specifications. Then asking for advice on the faceless internet puts the buyer in a sea of discreditably, incredibility, or whatever you call it the product has no credibility.

If you want credibility shop at known vendors like Jeg's, Summit, Scroggin Dickey (SDPC) and others you or your friends have used successfully. And I'm sure you can buy direct from the factory - Edelbrock, AFR, TrickFlow - but will pay full price.

Primoz

Are these any good?
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...14005/10002/-1

HeadsU.P.

Any Good? Well, ya. Get what you pay for. Couple things here. Valve spring pocket may not give the option for larger springs later on. At a .475" max lift, what if you go to a 480+ lift in the future? Other heads are machined for up-grades in spring dia if one desires later. The machining on the exhaust port pads is a little rough which may cause issues with header gaskets not sealing. So, you may have to do a little clean-up there. Also note that longer pushrods are likely needed, buts that's the norm. Last but not least, the angle of the intake bolt holes and lesser there of. So you have a Vortec intake?

Primoz

Well no. I have Edelbrock performer intake.
In one of the other posts they recommended these:
http://www.jegs.com/i/ProMaxx-Perfor.../2168/10002/-1

Also an option. A little priceier but I would save on shipping.

cv67

edelbrock e streets are a hair more those are known usa pieces

Headsup posted some good stuff. Scary thing about offshore heads is how do you know that rocker studd boss or bolts holes in general is in the right location? Quality valves, seats coencentric to the guides...is the aluminum good enough quality to take a weld. A cheap valve doesnt care if its in a mild weekend driver or a high buck motor

Lots more to a head than price and some flow sheet. If the good stuff could be sold for a profit that cheap they'd be doing it.

HeadsU.P.

ProMaxx 2168s 185 runners.
Ok, wait. Those are angle plug heads if those will work with your headers. I believe the springs pockets will take a larger size in the future, if needed. Have guide plates too, good.

I have the ProMaxx 2169s. Straight plug. I love mine. And I paid a little more than that last year.
You still need a pushrod length checker (longer pushrods) quality headgaskets, ARP headbolts. Longer sparkplugs. If you go with these and order pushrods, MAKE SURE they are compatable with guide plates.

Primoz

I missed the angle spark plugs.
This will do just nicely:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ProMaxx-Pe...IAAOSwa~BYQcp7

And the shipping is dead cheap to Europe!

HeadsU.P.

One tip: The instructions state to torque headbolts (ARPs) in three increments. I would recommend five steps: Snug all of them> jump 20>jump20>jump 20 and so on. This will give you even (slow) torqueing and lessen the chance of hairline fractures. ARPS bolts come with a special lube for the boltwashers. (I don't know if others do) And you will need a thread sealant into the waterjacket.

Primoz

does anyone have any solid advice on heads/camshaft combo for 71 sb? I'm budget minded so cast iron or budget aluminum heads.

Dynra Rockets

If all you want is weight savings then look at L98 113 heads. Very inexpensive here in the states, $400-500 USD every day of the week.

HeadsU.P.

Call one of the great cam companies and talk to a tech. They have about 20 questions to ask you so have your specs ready. Asking cam advice on a forum is a shot in the dark using your money, not the responders. Everybody thinks the cam they choose will work for some other combination. Not true.

cv67

113s are dirt cheap few hundred tops. Beter than camel humps, not a lot better but Ok.
Thing is they are old so if the guides are shot by the time you get them "right" you could a bought new ones. i understand budget but heads...you just cant esp the chinese ones. Good quality parts cost a bundle no way they are selling you a new head that performs and will last a long time its not possible.
buddy learned that the hard way, a valve head snapped off at 2200 rpm took his entire engine out not ONE piecs was salvageable not even the carb base plate.
Thats one part |id charge if you have to its worth it.

Cams...same thing most specs you see posted dont tell the whole story....do you need a custom cam for amild build, no there are millions of good grinds alreasy out there. Maybe direction to pick the RIGHT one....sheesh half the "Custom" cams out there ARE off the shelf pieces half the builders out there all use the same damn thing they just stamp their name on it. Do the same thing you do, call give needs then they pick.
Fell for the $600 custom cams not once but twice. They were crap, didnt run worth a damn and tore up my valvetrain pieces real quick.
Current $350 Isky I ordered runs better than anything Ive ever used.

Try some of the older cam companies they cant afford to turn out low quality products. Crower Isky etc
no way some 22 yr old 12 buck an hr kid is going to know enough to get it right that only comes with time and experience

HeadsU.P.

You shouldn't be real concerned about off-shore heads. That just means the foundry is in China. The castings supposedly are of top quality materials and sent to machinest in the U.S. So none of bolt holes, valveguides or port locations have been touched until they they enter USA companies facilities. In laymens terms; rough castings. The majority of aluminum heads are from China because foundry labor is so much cheaper there. The alloys are of quality because a U.S. companies demand that from overseas foundries and will be putting an American name on the cyl head.

Primoz

I talked to the Jegs customer service and they said that with these:
http://www.jegs.com/i/ProMaxx-Perfor.../2169/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/K12-238-2/10002/-1

I would add 55hp and 75tq.

Not worth it in my opinion.
I was looking at end goal of around 375hp!
Is that achievable with my budget of $1500?
But another question is: is it worth it? Not knowing what is the state of the pistons & crank? Or should I go crate engine way?
Bare in mind that I live in Europe and everything I buy is +30% price because of the customs!

Jebbysan

And the Dart Iron Eagle out performs any Vortec.
Scan E-bay and see if there are any used ones for sale....I found some two years ago for $600 complete from a Corvette shop of all things.....I did not end up using them but I pulled them apart....checked everything and we stuck them on my buddies blown 355 for his 32' Ford.....killer deal all around......

I will not mess with the overseas stuff.......just the way I am.
If you do buy some....make sure you disassemble and check everything......to me....they are not that much cheaper.
I buy Dart bare castings with the valve job complete and assemble them myself......only way to fly for me.

Jebby