Headlight Relay Question
09-03-2017, 12:38 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Headlight Relay Question
I have a custom 1982 Philips Berlina Coupe SE factory built on a 1982 Corvette extended frame in the Phillips Motorcar Corporation in Pompano Beach Florida. It has 2 low beam headlights and 4 high beams. The 4 high beam headlights draw 20 amps and maxed out on the 16 gauge wire.
I'm looking to install relay switching for high and low beams.
From what I see the power supply from the battery to the engine area is by the wire to the starter and an 8 gauge directly wired to the alternator.
I'm looking to get the relay power from that alternator/battery wire because it's large enough to do the job and it's closest to the general location of the headlights.
Is there any reason why I should not splice a 12 gauge wire into this power supply and continue to the relays? As I said this wire comes directly from the battery and it's also protected right at the battery box. I can add another inline fuse before I hook it up to the relays.
Please advise, thx, John in Red Deer.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...ursAUhb16tk0Cu
https://www.corvetteforum.com/g/picture/1363697
I'm looking to install relay switching for high and low beams.
From what I see the power supply from the battery to the engine area is by the wire to the starter and an 8 gauge directly wired to the alternator.
I'm looking to get the relay power from that alternator/battery wire because it's large enough to do the job and it's closest to the general location of the headlights.
Is there any reason why I should not splice a 12 gauge wire into this power supply and continue to the relays? As I said this wire comes directly from the battery and it's also protected right at the battery box. I can add another inline fuse before I hook it up to the relays.
Please advise, thx, John in Red Deer.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...ursAUhb16tk0Cu
https://www.corvetteforum.com/g/picture/1363697
Last edited by Charliebates; 09-03-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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Charliebates (09-03-2017)
09-03-2017, 05:45 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
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Charliebates (09-05-2017)
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Charliebates (09-05-2017)
09-05-2017, 10:33 AM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
I've been restoring the car and in the final stage of completion. I couldn't work on the it for almost a year and a half due to health issues.
But that's behind me now and getting it done.
Thx again guys and much appreciated. , John in Red Deer
09-05-2017, 12:47 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
On this subject, I have to highly recommend to anyone else who comes across this thread in the future, to consider the Dapper Lighting 575 Relay Harness. It makes for a super easy install on C3s.
I finished installing it on my 79 Vette 2 weekends ago.
https://www.dapperlighting.com/produ...-harnesses-575 For $25 you can't beat it.
Two relays- and stock-style connectors; one for the dims and the other for the brights; they're setup so that when the brights are on all 4 lights are on. You can screw the two relays to the front of the driver's side wheel well, run the wiring easily through the stock location between the driver's side of the radiator and the wheel well to the alternator- it includes an inline fuse that mounts close to the alternator. You simply plug your old wiring into the harness's plugs and then run the harnesses new plugs to your lights. They'll support up to 55 watt HIDs including their 10 amps surge at initial startup.
Really pretty simple. You could probably mount them "backwards" to how I described and that way run "power in" to the relays via the starter lug on the passenger side, but I elected to run them off the alt.
Adam
I finished installing it on my 79 Vette 2 weekends ago.
https://www.dapperlighting.com/produ...-harnesses-575 For $25 you can't beat it.
Two relays- and stock-style connectors; one for the dims and the other for the brights; they're setup so that when the brights are on all 4 lights are on. You can screw the two relays to the front of the driver's side wheel well, run the wiring easily through the stock location between the driver's side of the radiator and the wheel well to the alternator- it includes an inline fuse that mounts close to the alternator. You simply plug your old wiring into the harness's plugs and then run the harnesses new plugs to your lights. They'll support up to 55 watt HIDs including their 10 amps surge at initial startup.
Really pretty simple. You could probably mount them "backwards" to how I described and that way run "power in" to the relays via the starter lug on the passenger side, but I elected to run them off the alt.
Adam
Last edited by NewbVetteGuy; 09-05-2017 at 12:48 PM.
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Charliebates (09-08-2017)
09-07-2017, 06:14 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
I thought I had this all figured out guys.
I got my headlights and relays all wired up. I added the fuse adaptors and now I'm checking on the size of fuse to use but I don't find any headlight fuses or circuit breakers for the headlights?
Are the headlights not protected with fuses or circuit breakers?
I got my headlights and relays all wired up. I added the fuse adaptors and now I'm checking on the size of fuse to use but I don't find any headlight fuses or circuit breakers for the headlights?
Are the headlights not protected with fuses or circuit breakers?
09-07-2017, 06:51 PM
#9
Race Director
I thought I had this all figured out guys.
I got my headlights and relays all wired up. I added the fuse adaptors and now I'm checking on the size of fuse to use but I don't find any headlight fuses or circuit breakers for the headlights?
Are the headlights not protected with fuses or circuit breakers?
I got my headlights and relays all wired up. I added the fuse adaptors and now I'm checking on the size of fuse to use but I don't find any headlight fuses or circuit breakers for the headlights?
Are the headlights not protected with fuses or circuit breakers?
No fuses or circuit breakers protect the headlights on a 1982 Corvette.
DUB
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Charliebates (09-08-2017)
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Charliebates (09-08-2017)
09-08-2017, 11:02 AM
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
Here's an update on my progress.
I added the relay switching with fuses and heavier gauge wiring to operate the headlights.
I solder and shrink wrap everything and install the wiring in wiring loom for protection and better looks. Also use Dielectric grease on terminals and connectors to stop corrosion and the Dielectric grease also lubes up the bullet connectors so easier to connect. My shop built sealed bullet connectors are quite hard to snap into place with out lube.
I don't have louvers on my car so I removed the louver relay and circuit wiring. That opened up a nice spot to fasten the two headlight relays and nutted them to left over studs. They look like they belong there.
I did get the power supply from the alternator connector. I could have protect the relay headlight circuits with a single fuse on the 12 gauge supply wire. But a single inline fuse would shut down both high and low beam circuits if over loaded. So instead installed 2 inline fuses, one before each relay. If one headlight circuit is over loaded then there's the other circuit still operating and still have headlights to continue down the road instead of calling for a tow.
I'm also re-doing all the front end wiring including the signals, horns, running lights and as mentioned, the headlights.
Thx , John
09-08-2017, 11:06 AM
#12
Instructor
Thread Starter
On this subject, I have to highly recommend to anyone else who comes across this thread in the future, to consider the Dapper Lighting 575 Relay Harness. It makes for a super easy install on C3s.
I finished installing it on my 79 Vette 2 weekends ago.
https://www.dapperlighting.com/produ...-harnesses-575 For $25 you can't beat it.
Two relays- and stock-style connectors; one for the dims and the other for the brights; they're setup so that when the brights are on all 4 lights are on. You can screw the two relays to the front of the driver's side wheel well, run the wiring easily through the stock location between the driver's side of the radiator and the wheel well to the alternator- it includes an inline fuse that mounts close to the alternator. You simply plug your old wiring into the harness's plugs and then run the harnesses new plugs to your lights. They'll support up to 55 watt HIDs including their 10 amps surge at initial startup.
Really pretty simple. You could probably mount them "backwards" to how I described and that way run "power in" to the relays via the starter lug on the passenger side, but I elected to run them off the alt.
Adam
I finished installing it on my 79 Vette 2 weekends ago.
https://www.dapperlighting.com/produ...-harnesses-575 For $25 you can't beat it.
Two relays- and stock-style connectors; one for the dims and the other for the brights; they're setup so that when the brights are on all 4 lights are on. You can screw the two relays to the front of the driver's side wheel well, run the wiring easily through the stock location between the driver's side of the radiator and the wheel well to the alternator- it includes an inline fuse that mounts close to the alternator. You simply plug your old wiring into the harness's plugs and then run the harnesses new plugs to your lights. They'll support up to 55 watt HIDs including their 10 amps surge at initial startup.
Really pretty simple. You could probably mount them "backwards" to how I described and that way run "power in" to the relays via the starter lug on the passenger side, but I elected to run them off the alt.
Adam
09-09-2017, 09:37 AM
#13
Race Director
Member Since: Apr 2007
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The headlight switch has the protection built into it. It's sometimes called a breaker but is really just a bi-metallic switch.
FYI, by law the headlight protection must be self resetting. Around here, if the car goes through a safety inspection the person is supposed to fail a car using a fuse to protect the headlight circuit.
FYI, by law the headlight protection must be self resetting. Around here, if the car goes through a safety inspection the person is supposed to fail a car using a fuse to protect the headlight circuit.
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Charliebates (09-09-2017)
09-09-2017, 12:40 PM
#14
Instructor
Thread Starter
The headlight switch has the protection built into it. It's sometimes called a breaker but is really just a bi-metallic switch.
FYI, by law the headlight protection must be self resetting. Around here, if the car goes through a safety inspection the person is supposed to fail a car using a fuse to protect the headlight circuit.
FYI, by law the headlight protection must be self resetting. Around here, if the car goes through a safety inspection the person is supposed to fail a car using a fuse to protect the headlight circuit.
I have another problem that u may be of help. I'll make a new post.
Thx, John
http://img.dxcdn.com/OverviewImage/Y...u_431544_2.jpg
09-09-2017, 01:36 PM
#15
Instructor
Thread Starter
I have run into another lighting problem with running lights and left front signal operation.
Initially I expected a poor ground. But the ground wires are all soldered and run to the frame and then to the ground on the alternator along with the heavy ground that's directly hooked up to the battery. It's well done and nice work.
Here's my symptoms.
The signal lights all operate properly when switched on without the running lights.
The running lights all work properly when switched on with out the signal lights.
The passenger side signal lights and the running lights work properly when switched on together.
The drivers signal light works properly but quits when the running lights are turned on at the same time. Turn off the running lights and the signal works properly again.
Trade the front signals from side to side and still have the same problem. So it's not the signal lights.
Run a separate ground wire to the chassis, battery where ever and still no signal lights.
Remove the 20 amp fuse from the fuse box to disconnect all running light circuitry and the drivers signal still shuts down when the running lights are switched on.
From this information would you expect the problem is inside the car and related to the headlight switch or wiring from the headlight switch to the fuse box?
And if it is the headlight switch then why does it only affect the drivers side.
I'm puzzled for now.
Initially I expected a poor ground. But the ground wires are all soldered and run to the frame and then to the ground on the alternator along with the heavy ground that's directly hooked up to the battery. It's well done and nice work.
Here's my symptoms.
The signal lights all operate properly when switched on without the running lights.
The running lights all work properly when switched on with out the signal lights.
The passenger side signal lights and the running lights work properly when switched on together.
The drivers signal light works properly but quits when the running lights are turned on at the same time. Turn off the running lights and the signal works properly again.
Trade the front signals from side to side and still have the same problem. So it's not the signal lights.
Run a separate ground wire to the chassis, battery where ever and still no signal lights.
Remove the 20 amp fuse from the fuse box to disconnect all running light circuitry and the drivers signal still shuts down when the running lights are switched on.
From this information would you expect the problem is inside the car and related to the headlight switch or wiring from the headlight switch to the fuse box?
And if it is the headlight switch then why does it only affect the drivers side.
I'm puzzled for now.
09-09-2017, 06:39 PM
#16
Race Director
You have a lack of ground to the bulb sockets.
Let me explain.
You wrote:
The signal lights all operate properly when switched on without the running lights.
And the reason for this is that the ground path is being used THROUGH the unused filament in the bulb. Due to the bulb being an 1157. It has two filaments. And each of these two filaments are attached to the brass socket....along with the individual terminal that allows it get power. So..that is how the ground can be 'hunted out' and found.
The same holds true for what you wrote here:
The running lights all work properly when switched on with out the signal lights.
And this is because you are still only using one filament and not both of them at the same time
Then you wrote:
The passenger side signal lights and the running lights work properly when switched on together.
And this is because the sockets are getting a good ground and not relying ion using a filament to make the bulb work and previously described.
SO....you have to check the black wire in your light socket and CONFIRM that there is a ground present. What you can also do as a test and will confirm what I wrote is true is use a wire and ground it and take it and make it touch the brass portion of the light bulbs in question and see if they work correctly..and I am sure they will.
DUB
Let me explain.
You wrote:
The signal lights all operate properly when switched on without the running lights.
And the reason for this is that the ground path is being used THROUGH the unused filament in the bulb. Due to the bulb being an 1157. It has two filaments. And each of these two filaments are attached to the brass socket....along with the individual terminal that allows it get power. So..that is how the ground can be 'hunted out' and found.
The same holds true for what you wrote here:
The running lights all work properly when switched on with out the signal lights.
And this is because you are still only using one filament and not both of them at the same time
Then you wrote:
The passenger side signal lights and the running lights work properly when switched on together.
And this is because the sockets are getting a good ground and not relying ion using a filament to make the bulb work and previously described.
SO....you have to check the black wire in your light socket and CONFIRM that there is a ground present. What you can also do as a test and will confirm what I wrote is true is use a wire and ground it and take it and make it touch the brass portion of the light bulbs in question and see if they work correctly..and I am sure they will.
DUB
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Charliebates (09-21-2017)
09-21-2017, 04:14 PM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
You have a lack of ground to the bulb sockets.
Let me explain.
You wrote:
The signal lights all operate properly when switched on without the running lights.
And the reason for this is that the ground path is being used THROUGH the unused filament in the bulb. Due to the bulb being an 1157. It has two filaments. And each of these two filaments are attached to the brass socket....along with the individual terminal that allows it get power. So..that is how the ground can be 'hunted out' and found.
The same holds true for what you wrote here:
The running lights all work properly when switched on with out the signal lights.
And this is because you are still only using one filament and not both of them at the same time
Then you wrote:
The passenger side signal lights and the running lights work properly when switched on together.
And this is because the sockets are getting a good ground and not relying ion using a filament to make the bulb work and previously described.
SO....you have to check the black wire in your light socket and CONFIRM that there is a ground present. What you can also do as a test and will confirm what I wrote is true is use a wire and ground it and take it and make it touch the brass portion of the light bulbs in question and see if they work correctly..and I am sure they will.
DUB
Let me explain.
You wrote:
The signal lights all operate properly when switched on without the running lights.
And the reason for this is that the ground path is being used THROUGH the unused filament in the bulb. Due to the bulb being an 1157. It has two filaments. And each of these two filaments are attached to the brass socket....along with the individual terminal that allows it get power. So..that is how the ground can be 'hunted out' and found.
The same holds true for what you wrote here:
The running lights all work properly when switched on with out the signal lights.
And this is because you are still only using one filament and not both of them at the same time
Then you wrote:
The passenger side signal lights and the running lights work properly when switched on together.
And this is because the sockets are getting a good ground and not relying ion using a filament to make the bulb work and previously described.
SO....you have to check the black wire in your light socket and CONFIRM that there is a ground present. What you can also do as a test and will confirm what I wrote is true is use a wire and ground it and take it and make it touch the brass portion of the light bulbs in question and see if they work correctly..and I am sure they will.
DUB
Using my multi meter, I found that I don't have a ground anymore from the rear of the car.
I say "anymore" because I'm just completing a frame off restoration and could have had a ground before or not. To explain one of the ground wires is connected to the fuel tank gauge lid and may have grounded the works before and was wrong but worked.
As part of the restoration I coated the fuel tank with a thick coating of polyurethane product so it's now insulated and not a conductor and now no ground.
There are 3 ground wires and part of the rear wiring harness and running with the rear wiring harness and into the cabin at the rear drivers side over the wheel well and they are not grounded. There are no ground wires from that wheel well forward to the dash in that same wiring harness.
So those three ground wires have a different path and are routed on there own some where over that rear wheel well. Without ripping apart the glued down carpet over that wheel well, can u tell me where these ground wires get connected to the body or battery?
If I know that grounding location hopefully I can find them and make the proper connection with out a huge carpet rip out.
Or I can make a new ground to the frame?
Can please advise me on this?
Thx again, John
09-21-2017, 05:42 PM
#18
Race Director
Please excuse me if I may be a bit of on this but trying to remember each and every spot that GM put the grounds is something that I hope I still know. Working on Corvettes mainly from 1963 to 1996...it is hard to keep track of every spot.
I do know that on the 'B' pillar...they attached grounds for the alarm system wiring for the T-tops. If I am correct...they also screwed one or more to the inside of your 'B' on the drivers side.
They did not attach them to the battery because all you really want is the cable attached to your battery and no eyelets between the cable end and the battery 'post' area.
I am having a literal 'brain fart' in remembering IF there is a ground wire with an eyelet that gets attached to the frame somewhere on the drivers side behind the rear splash shield area. I know some years do it...but I can not remember if a 1982 has it that way or not.
DUB
I do know that on the 'B' pillar...they attached grounds for the alarm system wiring for the T-tops. If I am correct...they also screwed one or more to the inside of your 'B' on the drivers side.
They did not attach them to the battery because all you really want is the cable attached to your battery and no eyelets between the cable end and the battery 'post' area.
I am having a literal 'brain fart' in remembering IF there is a ground wire with an eyelet that gets attached to the frame somewhere on the drivers side behind the rear splash shield area. I know some years do it...but I can not remember if a 1982 has it that way or not.
DUB
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Charliebates (09-21-2017)
09-21-2017, 11:05 PM
#19
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thx for that DUB.
I'll go back and look at the AIM again, could be I missed something.
Do U see anything wrong with adding a new ground to the frame?
I'll go back and look at the AIM again, could be I missed something.
Do U see anything wrong with adding a new ground to the frame?
09-22-2017, 06:24 PM
#20
Race Director
I do not know what you mean by 'adding a new ground to the frame"
From where to where???
Having good ground wires is great...but I can not agree with doing this until you better clarify your intentions.
DUB
From where to where???
Having good ground wires is great...but I can not agree with doing this until you better clarify your intentions.
DUB