Another wiped lobe
10-18-2017, 05:20 PM
#21
Race Director
Yes, you can buy 'off the shelf' high zinc phosphorous oils at Walmart. But its slightly tricky, its doesn't matter the brand, Mobil, Valvoline, Castrol.....the amount of zinc/phosphorous will vary depending on viscosity. Don't assume a 10W30 is OK based on 10W40.
10-18-2017, 07:04 PM
#23
Had a 1976 L-82, 4-sp
Member Since: Mar 2011
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Royal Canadian Navy
Attachment 48216576
Mobil 1 0W-40 has 1,100 PPM zinc per their spec sheet (attached). This is much higher than most modern passenger car oils, although still a little less than some of the specialty oils. Did some checking and if I looked correctly, Valvoline VR-1 is 1,300 PPM and Brad Penn is 1,500 PPM. I think the 0W-40 is a good product for all but the most severe services.
Mobil 1 0W-40 has 1,100 PPM zinc per their spec sheet (attached). This is much higher than most modern passenger car oils, although still a little less than some of the specialty oils. Did some checking and if I looked correctly, Valvoline VR-1 is 1,300 PPM and Brad Penn is 1,500 PPM. I think the 0W-40 is a good product for all but the most severe services.
10-18-2017, 07:34 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13,'19-'20
Always used VR-1 w no issues. However I went with a Howards retro-roller kit and am quite happy now to be simply entertained by these threads! OP, go roller! It's worth the extra $$$ in just not having to worry about it! 
10-18-2017, 08:13 PM
#25
It's only the 0W-40 that is 1100. As someone else pointed out, the 15W-50 is even higher. I like the 0W-40, because to meet the viscometrics and volatility specs for that grade requires use of PAO base oils. These are true synthetic, with very good high temperature stability compared with the "synthetic" Group III mineral oils.
10-20-2017, 12:38 AM
#26
Race Director
Was trying to get out of this cheap but new cam and lifters now add $350 extra. This is third premature cam failure I've had and I've tried all the break in procedures and oils to prevent this but still happens.
I think the only real solution to this issue is roller rockers or better cam materials or hardening procedures. Comp cam Magnum 282S. Cant afford rollers unfortunately.
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Surfer69 (10-20-2017)
10-20-2017, 01:38 AM
#27
Melting Slicks
With the money spent on more lifters and cams, you could have went roller and avoided all this, jus sayin'. I feel your pain though. If you can go roller, do it and then not worry about oils and additives or break-in anymore. Hope you have better luck in the future.
10-20-2017, 07:21 AM
#28
Le Mans Master
It's only the 0W-40 that is 1100. As someone else pointed out, the 15W-50 is even higher. I like the 0W-40, because to meet the viscometrics and volatility specs for that grade requires use of PAO base oils. These are true synthetic, with very good high temperature stability compared with the "synthetic" Group III mineral oils.
The only M1 grade oils that should be used with a flat tappet cammed engine are Mobil 1 0W-40 EUROPEAN FORMULA and as Redoggie mentioned above as well, Mobil 1 15W-50 (1,200/1,300 ZDDP but not a true synthetic). None of the mass market grade oils from Mobil or any other oil company that are mass market grade oil weights such as 10W-30, 10W-40, 5W-30, 0W-30, etc should be used with flat tappet cams since the ZDDP limit mandated by the EPA is 800 PPM.
Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula has 1,000/1,100 ZDDP which meets the Zinc requirement for a moderate flat tappet cam/springs, is a true group IV PAO ester based synthetic (unlike the other Mobil 1 "synthetcis" in the US only as well as almost all the other US "synthetics" oils by most of the other oil companies which they are NOT). In addition, Mobil 1 0W-40 European formula besides being the most PAO ester synthetic in the Mobil 1 line MUST meet the MUCH more stringent oil requirements of the European car companies like Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, VW etc which require a PAO ester synthetic and must use a much more robust additive package.
As others have noted, the reduction in ZDDP in oils was mandated by the EPA since Zinc "poisons" the catalyst of the converter and since new car's emissions MUST last 150,000 miles, the additional Zinc hindered the ability of some cats to reach that mileage. Like every thing from the government, the full story is often not told. The zinc could hinder some cats to reach that mileage but higher ZDDP levels do not ensure that to happen. So, in the socialist/communist like society mentality that prevails in this country now, the government mandated that all oils could only have a limit of 800 ppm, which only effects mass market oil weights, NOT speciality oil weights, like 0W-40 Mobil 1 Euro Formula. BTW-My daughter's 01 Pontiac grand prix with 205,000 miles and running Mobil 1 0W-40 for MANY years now is still on the OEM cat...go figure!
Every single piece of power equipment I own and all my cars including my 10C6Z06 uses Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro Formula only...every one! Not one burns any oil or has had a motor fail..not one!
Lastly, the 78 L-82 ran Mobil 1 15W-50 for 20-25 years before the rebuild in 2014. I still have the OEM L-82 cam in my garage before switching to the current Howards Roller (running 0W-40 Mobil 1 BTW) and the cam lopes on the L-82 cam look perfect...almost no wear! I just don't buy that all the flat tappet cam failures are due solely to the oil type but more about the quality of the metal being used on many cams today....just me
Last edited by jb78L-82; 10-20-2017 at 08:41 AM.
10-20-2017, 08:48 AM
#29
Drifting
so, it lubricates so well it wears out parts? nonsense.. thats an old wives tale..and it does not cause leaks either... use synthetics designed for older engines with zinc.. I ve had several flat tappet engines go 275,000 miles on Mobil one
10-20-2017, 09:06 AM
#30
Le Mans Master
This was my experience. The pushrods were not rotating on a fresh build with a GM 30/30 cam. The engine was running a full synthetic oil with GM break in additive. If the lifters do not rotate on a fresh build, the cam and lifters will fail....and they did. Replaced the cam/lifters with identical parts and tried again but this time ran Diesel Spec Rotella and it worked fine. Lifters rotated and the cam lives. Not exactly 100% scientific but I am a believer. YRMV.
10-20-2017, 09:21 AM
#32
Flat lifter cam shafts.......unless your car is matching #s to the max......there is just no good reason to do them anymore......and more than a few good reasons to go with a roller cam instead.
10-20-2017, 12:22 PM
#34
Drifting
Thread Starter
You're right Mako, doesn't make sense not to go with roller. 3 times is over 15 years and 2 engines. Eventually I will get the rollers.
10-20-2017, 12:40 PM
#35
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
not too bad really not everyones got 1000 to blow both arguements are valid
The smaller co's cant afford to turn out stuff that goes bad perhaps try something different Isky Crower and Shneider are in SoCal. Elgin is still around also. No guarantees but think youre chances are better
The smaller co's cant afford to turn out stuff that goes bad perhaps try something different Isky Crower and Shneider are in SoCal. Elgin is still around also. No guarantees but think youre chances are better
10-20-2017, 12:45 PM
#36
Pro
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The break in is the key to flat tapped camshaft life; not the oil. The higher performance camshaft kits often come with outer AND inner springs and the inner springs MUST be removed during the critical break in or the camshaft will be damaged.
10-20-2017, 04:23 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
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I bet if you took two identical flat tappet engines, exact twins, right down to the wingnut on the air cleaner and ran one with no zinc and one with zinc, the first engine wouldn't make it 5,000 miles.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; 10-20-2017 at 04:30 PM.
10-20-2017, 04:36 PM
#38
Le Mans Master
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This was my experience. The pushrods were not rotating on a fresh build with a GM 30/30 cam. The engine was running a full synthetic oil with GM break in additive. If the lifters do not rotate on a fresh build, the cam and lifters will fail....and they did. Replaced the cam/lifters with identical parts and tried again but this time ran Diesel Spec Rotella and it worked fine. Lifters rotated and the cam lives. Not exactly 100% scientific but I am a believer. YRMV.
10-20-2017, 11:34 PM
#39
The only conclusion is something is wrong.
Bad parts, bad oil, bad lubrication, wrong springs, wrong geometry, something.
Bad parts, bad oil, bad lubrication, wrong springs, wrong geometry, something.
10-21-2017, 12:06 AM
#40
Race Director