coil over vs transverse mono spring
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,565
Likes: 111
True, but he won Optima 3 times in a row with the monoleaf setup. Add to this that the C7s are still running monleafs. Yes, there will be differences in unsprung weight, availability of spring rates, etc. compared to a coilover. But the car does not know or care what 'kind' of spring it has... the spring rate is the spring rate. You could make the argument that the monoleaf inherently affects both sides of the car, but for the 99.9% of all drivers out there, I don't think a true coilover is going to show any real advantage in lap times. Just my .02.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 39
Likes: 5
From: Southern Oregon
transverse suspension weight advantage over coil overs
Hello- Here is an article that says transverse mono spring solution offers an unsprung weight reduction vs coil over. Also, SCCA cars are using transverse mono spring as well. At the extremes of racing, Lemans & Sebring, it does appear coil over is the only way to go. Since i only do occasional nostalgia drags it does not really matter. i don't do autocross any more. Just want upgrade. Either solution is a major improvement over my 1964 suspension I think. Thanks again for your input!
http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2012...vers-vs-leafs/
http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2012...vers-vs-leafs/
http://www.corvetteonline.com/tech-s...er-suspension/
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 14,407
Likes: 8,212
From: Napa Valley California
That's what Inliked about talking with Dan at Van Steel. They manufacture both coil over and transverse mono spring and give their advise for your intended use and are not biased on one system over an other.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I dug through some old pictures of the ALMS races. this is actually when the races were more fun and innovation abounded.
My old crap!
My old crap!
Last edited by gkull; Feb 12, 2018 at 01:15 PM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 39
Likes: 5
From: Southern Oregon
transverse vs coil over
Just talked with Dan at Van Steel. He does not like the front transverse spring and does not offer it. Says to stay stock, replace my 30 year old shocks with Bilsteins and/or go coilover on the front. He does like the rear mono spring and they do sell the rear in several flavors. Says the VBP transverse is very springy and requires super stiff shocks to work. Now learning to coilover.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
This is probably around the year 2000 being a C5R. The garages back then were pretty casual
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,456
Likes: 977
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
He does like the rear mono spring and they do sell the rear in several flavors. Says the VBP transverse is very springy and requires super stiff shocks to work.
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 39
Likes: 5
From: Southern Oregon
mono vs coil over
I have had a VBP 360 monospring on my 78 since 1986 and yes, the VBP monospring is bouncy and I did try KYB Gas A Just, Koni oils, and Bilstein with this spring. The Bilsteins were by far the best but the Bilstein HD's did not provide enough spring damping. I switched to Bilstein Sports in the rear only with Bilstein HDs up front with my 550 springs, and the ride is near perfect with terrific handling. The Bilstein sports do not provide an overly firm ride at all, in fact the car rides almost perfectly to me for a sports car, firm but not harsh at all. The ride is if anything on the softer, comfortable side. My 78 rides BETTER than my 10C6Z06, 12 Lexus IS350 F Sport, and my 08 Chrysler 300 with Sport suspension. Just an FYI.
Pardon me for sounding like a neophyte but by "550" do you mean the original style front coil springs or are you using some brand of coilover? The rear spring I am looking at is their (Van Steel) 400 lb rated spring. it should be just as robust as my current big block 7 leaf rear spring. Not looking for a nicer ride. Want much better handling and reduced weight. Next issue will be who makes the best mono springs and the best coilovers? Van Steel looks like a better solution than ride tech or shark bite, less bling, more zing?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,456
Likes: 977
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
550 lbs front springs are the factory rated gymkhana front springs...Mine are 1 inch shorter than the stock ride height. The factory replacement spring rate for the steel 7 leaf spring is the 360 composite...steel spring rates do not equate 1:1 to a composite. My factory gymkhana 7 leaf steel spring was rated at 292lbs and the replacement composite for the 292lbs steel spring is 360 lbs composite. If I was to replace my 360 composite, I would probably opt for a 400-420 lbs composite. The VBP 360 composite in my opinion is still a hair too soft for me. No thoughts on coil overs since I do not have them or used them.....
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 14,407
Likes: 8,212
From: Napa Valley California
Pardon me for sounding like a neophyte but by "550" do you mean the original style front coil springs or are you using some brand of coilover? The rear spring I am looking at is their (Van Steel) 400 lb rated spring. it should be just as robust as my current big block 7 leaf rear spring. Not looking for a nicer ride. Want much better handling and reduced weight. Next issue will be who makes the best mono springs and the best coilovers? Van Steel looks like a better solution than ride tech or shark bite, less bling, more zing?
It all comes down to what will work best for you.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 1,196
From: Canberra Australia
2025 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I went with the extended travel lowers from global west. I like the Vette low so it gave me more shock travel. Only slight issue is angle of the sway bar links but I lowered the mounts to help compensate.
The del aum bushes are so smooth. No squeaks and just a smooth ride from the front end.
The del aum bushes are so smooth. No squeaks and just a smooth ride from the front end.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,240
Likes: 1,013
From: Watkinsville, GA and Glen Cove, NY
I went with the extended travel lowers from global west. I like the Vette low so it gave me more shock travel. Only slight issue is angle of the sway bar links but I lowered the mounts to help compensate.
The del aum bushes are so smooth. No squeaks and just a smooth ride from the front end.
The del aum bushes are so smooth. No squeaks and just a smooth ride from the front end.
Bill
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
My advice on rear spring rate is to figure out how much rear squat you have during a max launch. Early in my vettes drag racing career I could feel the rear squat. So I had friends video from the side and rear of what was going on. We did measurements compared to the filming. With a little math I needed @500 inch pound spring to limit squat. Back in the 80s you had to make your own custom stuff. I went to a spring shop and they added a leaf and rearched the wimpy rear steel
years ago against my better judgment I installed a vb&p 420 mono to save weight. My tires were right into my body. I cranked up the rear body height and it caused body roll in the turns. So I called vb&p and had them make a custom mono. It came out to 520 pounds
really nice ride with qa1s
years ago against my better judgment I installed a vb&p 420 mono to save weight. My tires were right into my body. I cranked up the rear body height and it caused body roll in the turns. So I called vb&p and had them make a custom mono. It came out to 520 pounds
really nice ride with qa1s
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 1,196
From: Canberra Australia
2025 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ourney-44.html
Here is a mock up with some wood to lower the swaybar mount.
Did it in Aluminium but don't have a picture and car is at painter. Gave better clearance and angle.
I am thinking up updating to a 1.25" bar at some stage. The issue is more the angle of the tab on the end of the bar.
I spoke with Global West and suggested they move the bracket lower on the tube as well.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Craig you did a beautiful job of documenting your suspension changes. I have the vb&p 1.125 with spring end links. I tried a 1.250 bar off a friend's c3 race car at a track on a test and tune day. You can do the math if you convert to mm. But the 1.250 is @80% stiffer. approaching twice as stiff as the 1.125. Imo it ruins front end grip. People said that they could see day light under my front inside tires in the turns. He used mine and didn't want to give it back
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 1,196
From: Canberra Australia
2025 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Craig you did a beautiful job of documenting your suspension changes. I have the vb&p 1.125 with spring end links. I tried a 1.250 bar off a friend's c3 race car at a track on a test and tune day. You can do the math if you convert to mm. But the 1.250 is @80% stiffer. approaching twice as stiff as the 1.125. Imo it ruins front end grip. People said that they could see day light under my front inside tires in the turns. He used mine and didn't want to give it back
I don’t get much roll now with the car lowered so probably need only slightly bigger.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,240
Likes: 1,013
From: Watkinsville, GA and Glen Cove, NY
My Install starts here
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ourney-44.html
Here is a mock up with some wood to lower the swaybar mount.
Did it in Aluminium but don't have a picture and car is at painter. Gave better clearance and angle.
I am thinking up updating to a 1.25" bar at some stage. The issue is more the angle of the tab on the end of the bar.
I spoke with Global West and suggested they move the bracket lower on the tube as well.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ourney-44.html
Here is a mock up with some wood to lower the swaybar mount.
Did it in Aluminium but don't have a picture and car is at painter. Gave better clearance and angle.
I am thinking up updating to a 1.25" bar at some stage. The issue is more the angle of the tab on the end of the bar.
I spoke with Global West and suggested they move the bracket lower on the tube as well.
Bill
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,914
Likes: 962
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
True, but he won Optima 3 times in a row with the monoleaf setup. Add to this that the C7s are still running monleafs. Yes, there will be differences in unsprung weight, availability of spring rates, etc. compared to a coilover. But the car does not know or care what 'kind' of spring it has... the spring rate is the spring rate. You could make the argument that the monoleaf inherently affects both sides of the car, but for the 99.9% of all drivers out there, I don't think a true coilover is going to show any real advantage in lap times. Just my .02.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,914
Likes: 962
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Craig you did a beautiful job of documenting your suspension changes. I have the vb&p 1.125 with spring end links. I tried a 1.250 bar off a friend's c3 race car at a track on a test and tune day. You can do the math if you convert to mm. But the 1.250 is @80% stiffer. approaching twice as stiff as the 1.125. Imo it ruins front end grip. People said that they could see day light under my front inside tires in the turns. He used mine and didn't want to give it back
Years ago I tried a 1.25" bar with some 460# springs (trying out the soft spring, big bar combination that some of the suspension gurus preached), and hated it. Too much lift in accels and dive in braking, and no noticeable (to me) improvement in cornering. I now prefer a bit more spring, and just enough bar to tailor the handling to my liking.