AFR vs Trickflow 23*
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 33
From: Texas-out west
AFR vs Trickflow 23*
AFR 190--$1250
Trickflow 195---$800
is there really a big enough difference for the price on a hot 350 street small block with solid lift 515 lift cam? What are your opinions? Thanks. :cheers:
Trickflow 195---$800
is there really a big enough difference for the price on a hot 350 street small block with solid lift 515 lift cam? What are your opinions? Thanks. :cheers:
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Cedar City UT
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (LT1driver)
Here are the flow numbers
Lift int/exh Lift int/exh
TFS 23 .2 136/98 AFR .2 144/121
.3 191/136 .3 208/157
.4 230/163 .4 244/188
.5 253/177 .5 262/202
.6 254/190 .6 261/211
Like I said not as good as AFR's but pretty good for the bucks
You can find those TFS heads at http://www.goautocenter.com $400. + shipping
Bob
Lift int/exh Lift int/exh
TFS 23 .2 136/98 AFR .2 144/121
.3 191/136 .3 208/157
.4 230/163 .4 244/188
.5 253/177 .5 262/202
.6 254/190 .6 261/211
Like I said not as good as AFR's but pretty good for the bucks
You can find those TFS heads at http://www.goautocenter.com $400. + shipping
Bob
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (Desertvette)
Hey, that is a great link. That $400 looks assembled.
Also, don't the Trick Flow G2s flow alot better, in fact almost identical to the AFRs? The G2s are only $475. Still seems alot cheaper than the AFRs....
Also, how big a lift can the 1.25" springs on the 23 Trick Flows handle? What about the 1.47" on the G2s? Anyone have any idea?
Also, don't the Trick Flow G2s flow alot better, in fact almost identical to the AFRs? The G2s are only $475. Still seems alot cheaper than the AFRs....
Also, how big a lift can the 1.25" springs on the 23 Trick Flows handle? What about the 1.47" on the G2s? Anyone have any idea?
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Cedar City UT
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (SaltyNuts)
The flow #'s for the TFS G2's are
.2 127/116
.3 186/155
.4 227/183
.5 254/204
.6 265/213
I called Autocenter's 800# and asked if it was a misprint. The guy on the phone stated "no" that price was correct for assembled heads. They have 2.02/1.60 vlvs and 1.250 springs good for .520 lift.
Trick Flows 1.47 springs are good for.540 lift and dual 1.46 springs for .600
I have'nt seen the G2 heads listed at Trick Flows web site so I wonder if there still being made. They got a bad reputation from the get go on the G1's because of a vlv guide issue that they later corrected in the G2's. It involved cast iron vlv guides and positive guide seals that did'nt provide enough lubrication and wore the guides. They also had a problem with people not checking the vlv train geometry for proper length pushrods that messed up guides.
Anytime you install after market heads it's a good idea to chk for proper geometry or you can have these problems no matter the mfg
Bob
.2 127/116
.3 186/155
.4 227/183
.5 254/204
.6 265/213
I called Autocenter's 800# and asked if it was a misprint. The guy on the phone stated "no" that price was correct for assembled heads. They have 2.02/1.60 vlvs and 1.250 springs good for .520 lift.
Trick Flows 1.47 springs are good for.540 lift and dual 1.46 springs for .600
I have'nt seen the G2 heads listed at Trick Flows web site so I wonder if there still being made. They got a bad reputation from the get go on the G1's because of a vlv guide issue that they later corrected in the G2's. It involved cast iron vlv guides and positive guide seals that did'nt provide enough lubrication and wore the guides. They also had a problem with people not checking the vlv train geometry for proper length pushrods that messed up guides.
Anytime you install after market heads it's a good idea to chk for proper geometry or you can have these problems no matter the mfg
Bob
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (LT1driver)
If you look at the TFS site & download the 23° specs ... you'll see that all 23° heads are shown having 195cc intake volume. Then note that Go Auto Center's listing of TFS 23° heads are 190cc. Note GAC's TFS listing does not show TFS p/n's. Begs the question ... is there a misprint at TFS/GAC ... or are GAC's TFS heads obsolete/unproven versions ... or what?
Regarding G2 reference at GAC listing ... I don't find G1 or G2 or generation 1 or generation 2 mentioned on TFS site nor in TFS downloads ... whassup with that?
Admittedly, GAC's TFS pricing is tempting ... but just what are you getting?
And are TFS's valve train components as good as AFR's? Lotta guys like 10° or Super 7° valve locks. Street TFS comes w/ plain old 7° ... street AFR comes w/ 10° ... End nitpickin'.
Regarding G2 reference at GAC listing ... I don't find G1 or G2 or generation 1 or generation 2 mentioned on TFS site nor in TFS downloads ... whassup with that?
Admittedly, GAC's TFS pricing is tempting ... but just what are you getting?
And are TFS's valve train components as good as AFR's? Lotta guys like 10° or Super 7° valve locks. Street TFS comes w/ plain old 7° ... street AFR comes w/ 10° ... End nitpickin'.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 1
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (LT1driver)
Quote:
"is there really a big enough difference for the price on a hot 350 street small block with solid lift 515 lift cam? "
Nope.
Call Summit and see if they will meet that price,betting they will if you speak with someone in sales management.
Those TF23 heads have the best valve job in a production line type head I have personaly seen
"is there really a big enough difference for the price on a hot 350 street small block with solid lift 515 lift cam? "
Nope.
Call Summit and see if they will meet that price,betting they will if you speak with someone in sales management.
Those TF23 heads have the best valve job in a production line type head I have personaly seen
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
Likes: 1
From: Living in the Hartland
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (mountainmotor)
Quote:
"is there really a big enough difference for the price on a hot 350 street small block with solid lift 515 lift cam? "
Nope.
Call Summit and see if they will meet that price,betting they will if you speak with someone in sales management.
Those TF23 heads have the best valve job in a production line type head I have personaly seen
"is there really a big enough difference for the price on a hot 350 street small block with solid lift 515 lift cam? "
Nope.
Call Summit and see if they will meet that price,betting they will if you speak with someone in sales management.
Those TF23 heads have the best valve job in a production line type head I have personaly seen
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Cedar City UT
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (jackson)
Since jackson picked up on the runners being listed 190 cc and the 23 deg heads TFS list as 195cc, I called Autocenter and inquired as to wheather this was a missprint or discontinued old stock heads. The sales Rep stated they were infact 195cc heads brand new from TFS not refurbished or discontinued. That the web page was just a missprint but that the G2 heads were 190cc. I also like Summit but since I'm here in NV I would have to pay sales tax/handling charges even if they gave them to me at that price. Still cheaper for me to go with Autocenter but that would be a good idea to take Summit up on there lowest price gaurantee
Bob
Bob
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,198
Likes: 2
From: Eastern Connecticut
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (Cali,77,L-82)
Before you fall in love with the TFS heads, look at the low lift numbers compared to the AFRs. Your valves spend a lot more time off seat than at full lift, so that is a significant difference. I really don't know any real-world numbers, but my guess is you get what you pay for. Perhaps someone can do a Desktop Dyno comparison?
BTW, I am interested in new heads for my L48, but maybe the AFR 185s or WP S/R Torquers. Anybody have any info on them? Joe
BTW, I am interested in new heads for my L48, but maybe the AFR 185s or WP S/R Torquers. Anybody have any info on them? Joe
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,198
Likes: 2
From: Eastern Connecticut
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (Cali,77,L-82)
I just figured. since i have an 350/auto with 3.08 gears I should concentrate on low end torque, and power up to 5000-5500 rpm. I might be wrong, though. Joe
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 0
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (joe73vette)
I just figured. since i have an 350/auto with 3.08 gears I should concentrate on low end torque, and power up to 5000-5500 rpm. I might be wrong, though. Joe
...I would go with AFR's. They may be a little more expensive, but the quality of head your getting totaly makes it not matter. Take a look at these AFR heads we had for a couple weeks.
http://www.aaron74.homeip.net:81/AFR%20Heads/
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 0
Re: AFR vs Trickflow 23* (joe73vette)
They're umm...AFR heads. Yes, they're aluminum. You can order the heads directly off their web-site. http://www.airflowresearch.com/