manual steering effort
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 268
From: southern tip of lake michigan Indiana
Finalist 2022 C1 of the Year - Modified
manual steering effort
I've got a 69 with manual steering. It has about 60k miles, no play in the steering and stock size tires. The issue is high steering effort and the fact that the wheel doesn't return to center without my input. I'm sure the car needs an alignment. I'm very familiar with manual steering, I've had and have many manual steering cars. The 69 has a smaller diameter steering wheel than any other man. steering cars I've had.I guess what I'm after is will the alignment have much affect on steering effort? Could the box be low on lube causing high effort? After everything is checked out if i'm still not happy I may switch to Borgeson power steering. I should add that I recently drove a 67 and had to ask if it had power steering, it didn't.
Last edited by scotty t; May 12, 2018 at 09:44 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,175
Likes: 3,986
From: Connecticut, USA
I've got a 69 with manual steering. It has about 60k miles, no play in the steering and stock size tires. The issue is high steering effort and the fact that the wheel doesn't return to center without my input. I'm sure the car needs an alignment. I'm very familiar with manual steering, I've had and have many manual steering cars. The 69 has a smaller diameter steering wheel than any other man. steering cars I've had.I guess what I'm after is will the alignment have much affect on steering effort? Could the box be low on lube causing high effort? After everything is checked out if i'm still not happy I may switch to Borgeson power steering. I should add that I recently drove a 67 and had to ask if it had power steering, it didn't.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
I agree also. You did not say what engine you have in your car, but in my 68 convert with the big block boat anchor over the wheels the car steers fairly easily, except for parallel parking. I have a new steering box, so that probably helps.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 11,608
Likes: 780
From: Eustis ( Area 51 Bat Cave ) Fl
In the early 90s i drove my manual steering 66 and do not recall it being much effort, in fact it had great road feel,
C2s are same basic steering as c3s, mine was fully rebuilt,
My current 69 has power steering and im not there yet but if it leaks im going manual,
The borg conversion isnt for me im not down with having the break and modify the stock telescopic column, not for liability reasons but for my own safety and im too ocd and it seems too hack job.
C2s are same basic steering as c3s, mine was fully rebuilt,
My current 69 has power steering and im not there yet but if it leaks im going manual,
The borg conversion isnt for me im not down with having the break and modify the stock telescopic column, not for liability reasons but for my own safety and im too ocd and it seems too hack job.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 268
From: southern tip of lake michigan Indiana
Finalist 2022 C1 of the Year - Modified
Thanks for the reply's, on the road the car steers fine no wandering or darting no slop. it just won't return to center without input from the driver. AND it requires much more effort than i am used to on a man. steering car. SOOO what could be wrong with the box causing this but not causing sloppy steering? could it just be the smaller diameter steering wheel? maybe i'm being a wimp!? my 56 belair steers much easier, same with the 57 vette, my 48 Plymouth steers fine with a HEMI over the top of a manual R&P. i wish i knew someone with a similar car to try out just to see if my head is up my **** on this. my only other C3 was a power steering 76 almost 30 years ago.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,812
Likes: 2,029
From: eastern NC
Scott, there is no downside to having the steering box rebuilt. Based on your description above and particularly if it's history is unknown, a rebuild may be in order.
Send it off one of the professional rebuilders recommended by the folks here and you won't be disappointed. My recommendation would be Vansteel out of Clearwater, Florida and another gent I'll PM you with the info on.
Good luck... GUSTO
Send it off one of the professional rebuilders recommended by the folks here and you won't be disappointed. My recommendation would be Vansteel out of Clearwater, Florida and another gent I'll PM you with the info on.
Good luck... GUSTO
Last edited by GUSTO14; May 14, 2018 at 09:50 AM.
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Maybe someone has just tightened the adjuster too much?
Alignment will help the "on center" feel by getting caster correct.
My car had manual also and I had no issues with it...but I installed the Borgeson setup and it's made things even better. Very nice to drive and stable up past a proven 200 MPH!
JIM
Alignment will help the "on center" feel by getting caster correct.
My car had manual also and I had no issues with it...but I installed the Borgeson setup and it's made things even better. Very nice to drive and stable up past a proven 200 MPH!
JIM
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,175
Likes: 3,986
From: Connecticut, USA
Chances are the lash it too tight on this box, I would bet there is no preload left in it. Look at the lash screw, are there any threads showing above the jam nut?
I have seen this maybe 1000 times?
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,375
Likes: 1,067
From: Virginia USA
I'm with 427Hotrod and GTR1999. My car is manual ('71) and it was darty and a lot of play in the wheel. I replaced the rag joint but is still wasn't to my liking. Through the forum I found that the lash could be adjusted. The first time I adjusted it it wouldn't return to center on it's own. I back it off just a little and it's been good ever since. At low speeds in parking lots takes a bit of effort but I do like the instant feedback of manual steering.
Take a look at your lash adjustment.
Take a look at your lash adjustment.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,192
Likes: 343
From: Allenton Wisconsin
Sorry that is not correct. A Correctly built box will have 5 in lb drag off center and clearly snug up on center. If you can spin it with no resistance it is either worn out or way out of adjustment.
Chances are the lash it too tight on this box, I would bet there is no preload left in it. Look at the lash screw, are there any threads showing above the jam nut?
I have seen this maybe 1000 times?
Chances are the lash it too tight on this box, I would bet there is no preload left in it. Look at the lash screw, are there any threads showing above the jam nut?
I have seen this maybe 1000 times?
Last edited by terrys6t8roadster; May 16, 2018 at 02:45 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 11,608
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From: Eustis ( Area 51 Bat Cave ) Fl
I'm with 427Hotrod and GTR1999. My car is manual ('71) and it was darty and a lot of play in the wheel. I replaced the rag joint but is still wasn't to my liking. Through the forum I found that the lash could be adjusted. The first time I adjusted it it wouldn't return to center on it's own. I back it off just a little and it's been good ever since. At low speeds in parking lots takes a bit of effort but I do like the instant feedback of manual steering.
Take a look at your lash adjustment.
Take a look at your lash adjustment.
Yep, i rebuilt the box and set the lash on my ms 66 and wow, night and day difference
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,057
Likes: 421
From: BC
I agree with an adjustment or binding problem and it's free to find out. Mark a line where the slot on the adjustment screw is for reference then back it off counter clockwise 1/4 turn and see if your steering improves. A bad steering box with failure to return to center is actually more noticeable with power steering. The power steering is only assist and is assist after the box so any binding in the box is magnified. With assist (power steering) there is less pressure on the box to return to center as there is with manual steering as the assist is not in the steering box.
One other thing is that on the 69 front spindles there are two attach points for the tie rod ends. The inner ones are for power steering and the outer holes are for manual which makes the steering easier but slower. Using the inner PS holes on manual steering is common for quicker steering but makes return to center slightly slower.
One other thing is that on the 69 front spindles there are two attach points for the tie rod ends. The inner ones are for power steering and the outer holes are for manual which makes the steering easier but slower. Using the inner PS holes on manual steering is common for quicker steering but makes return to center slightly slower.
Last edited by CanadaGrant; May 18, 2018 at 12:25 AM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 268
From: southern tip of lake michigan Indiana
Finalist 2022 C1 of the Year - Modified
I've got a couple days left on a big project at the house, after that ill look into the car some more.I really appreciate the advice. I've had the car for about two years and haven't really had a chance to dig in to it yet because of work, family issues and another car project that snowballed into a much larger project. Thanks again Guys & Gals.