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I am to the point of figuring out what I need to do to fix the body on my 76.
The front end of the car had a prior shunt that impacted forward of the front wheels and has, due to some bubba repair in the past been fixed around 1.5 inches to the right of the car. This means the front bumper will not fit and a few minor tire clearance issues at full lock.
I am new to working on cars and fiberglass work so I am looking for advice on the processes to fix this damage and repair the bad repair left by prior owners. Pictures of everything I could think of and find are given in the post of the affected areas.
To describe it, the driver side front end forward of the wheel well was completely collapse and apparently repaired with overuse of what looks like a resin and body filler that has left holes in the body towards the very front end and left the inner wing still crumpled. The mating joint at the front driver side of the hood area has been fixed with resin to be incorrect and as far as I can tell holding the body in the right offset position. The flanges for the mounting of the front bumper are mostly destroyed on the left side and un-repaired while the right hand side has some minor damage at the crease point in the body.
There are also a fair number of oil/grease stains that were left on the body from prior owner that can be seen in the pictures.
So my questions are, is this front end a write off and should start shopping for a new front clip? Or should I crack on and start repairing one step at a time? In case of the front clip needs full replacement, any good guides for that whole task recommended, and if I am going to repair one step at a time I would like some idea of how to un-bubba the repairs without doing more damage than already exists as I have been puzzling about how to break the inner fender off to allow the body to return to the correct alignment.
Yes, body is still on the frame, but the supporting structures underneath are all removed. I do not have the space nor tools to lift the body off at the moment due to working out of my garage.
Tools, limited, first time working on a project like this, using it to learn and expand the knowledge, but also realize that there is a point that it is not worth it and should just be replaced.
Not a pro but from the things I see, I believe they can all be fixed and would increase your knowledge base. All depends on if you want to get into it that way. I know if you take a look at my 69 post you can get an idea of what your up against. (RVZIO69Restore)
Good Luck, we will be watching!
Yes, body is still on the frame, but the supporting structures underneath are all removed. I do not have the space nor tools to lift the body off at the moment due to working out of my garage.
Tools, limited, first time working on a project like this, using it to learn and expand the knowledge, but also realize that there is a point that it is not worth it and should just be replaced.
Glad to read that the body is still on the frame due to your photos were a bit misleading in that area.
I can tell you have all of the impact structure out.
This CAN be repaired...IF you want to do it.
The front clip can also be replaced..IF you want to do that and not tackle the laminations needed in the front bumper area.
So the choice is yours.
I can say that regardless of what method you choose. Unless you have the retainer that is riveted to the inside flange edge on the left side. You will need that even if you choose to put a front clip on it.
Because as you know...that retainer is bolted along with the end of your impart bar to get the entire front end strength. That part is MUST or you can have future problems.
So having grinders and some basic tools you can do this.
The arrow is pointing to the part you need for the left side if you do not have at alone with the curved piece that joins it to the front reinforcement.
Do I have the part, yes, but it is also damaged if I remember correctly and obviously will not fix itself to the body at the moment.
So since I am reading that it is basically up to what I want to do I assume that the do it yourself repair of all the individual problems is the cheaper route in dollars, which while not critical for me does help.
So to explore that possibility, how should I go about removing bubba's mess indicated in the photo without doing more damage, little wary of using an angle grinder on that due to the vibrations that could be sent through the whole fiberglass shell.
I am also assuming to tackle the front end offset I should first remove the inner wing via that problem area and un-bond(heat gun right?) it along the front and rear. then start repair of the wing and inner wing together once aligned properly.
It definitely could be fixed. It takes a lot of damage to leave fiberglass so bad it can't be repaired. However, it's your call if you trade $$$ for repair work.
I'd recommend you go onto YouTube and look up fiberglass boat repair videos. There are many good videos showing various fiberglass repairs.
The basic steps are as follows.
1. grind or cut out the destroyed bits that are in the way and keep you from building up new material.
2. feather the good material back a good 3-4" to give a surface to bond the repair to.
3. make a foam backer/form if necessary to hold the glass to the correct shape as it cures.
4. lay-up the fiberglass and resin.
5. clean up and prep the surface for paint.
I am also assuming to tackle the front end offset I should first remove the inner wing via that problem area and un-bond(heat gun right?) it along the front and rear. then start repair of the wing and inner wing together once aligned properly.
I am lost here.
Your photos do not show a front end off-set. And I do not know what you mean by 'inner wing'.
Knowing that this car was hit before..I would check the wheel base because you say you have a tire interference...and make sure you do not have a lower control arm problem or cradle set back. Assuming that you have the correct tires on the car also....with the correct wheels so the backspacing on the wheels is correct.
I am completely flying blind here due to not being able to see what you are seeing.
The front end offset is not noticeable as the structures are all removed, but when bought the car measured from center line that the center of the front was 1.5 inches to the passenger side.
Inner wing is the body work between the wheel and engine bay.
No damage to the control arms, and no issues found yet on the frame past the frame horns, Have not checked the tires as of yet, but clearance was tight, so might be incorrect tires.
An inch and half would show up in how the wheels look in relation to the wheel well lips of the fenders. One tire would be in a lot while the other tire would be right at the edge of the fender lip and almost having some of the tire poke out past it.
Have you checked to make sure the body is SQUARE in the frame at the indexing points under the door sills???
Update:
Frame is confirmed square, so thankfully no issues there except the frame horns that seem to have taken the entire force to the frame. I have tried to straighten the frame horns with no luck.
New #2, 3, 5, and 6 body mount bushings are installed along with new jobs of repairing a rusted out #4 and mildly deformed #5 most likely from the impact. Though I will be waiting to finish those up until the front end can be sorted. The # 1 and # 5 mounts are not installed to eliminate as much support to the front clip in efforts to find the cause of the offset.
The inner wing, or piece of fiberglass that separates the engine bay from the wheel well that is bonded to the front clip along the hood line has been separated along the hood line as shown here: Showing the separation along the hood drainage lip of the front clip and the inner wing using the shadow from upper right to middle left.
The front clip has not been allowed to shift back to full center at the front. I have done measurements to find out exactly how far we need to go by creating a datum line from the far front cross member datum hole and the transmission mount on the cross member further back that is shown on frame diagrams to be a center point. I made sure to take into account and correct any body offset by measuring the gaps between frame and body along door area.
I measured the offset at 4 locations, the forward most tip of the front clip at the body crease(dead center), the forward section of the wheel wells at the attach point for the plate with the air dam inlets, rear most point on the wheel well, and a reference point towards the door on the side. The forward most tip of the front clip was 1-1/8th inch offset towards the passenger side. The foremost wheel well measurement was 1/2inch offset towards the passenger side, while the rearward wheel well measurement was a minor offset towards the driver of roughly 1/16th inch. I have also confirmed that the hood lines of the front clip are close enough to straight with a straight edge, though I plane to drop the hood back in to get an idea before any movements are made.
I have noted that the front mating area of the inner wing and the fender has been fractured and bubba-repaired and is quite stiff. My question for you guys with years more experience in fiberglass is could this section here cause enough resistance that the body cannot shift back to center? Basically I am saying that could the fact that the inner wings supporting structure having been modified due to the repairs, could be adding too much rigidity there. If this may be the case, what is the best way of releasing that pressure, I am leery of cutting to close to the outer shell as I do not want to damage the outer shell.
Album of photos of the inner fender/wing damage from various positions with an overview shot of the front fender repair from previous owner. https://imgur.com/a/WRAwiwN
Otherwise my only option I see is delaminating the front clip from the firewall bonds in an effort to set it right, but I am loath to do this until I know that it is required to fix this as well as I am not sure it would fully fix the issue based on my measurements. Any thoughts to help me figure out how to get this fixed? All help is appreciated.
use fiberglass matting and resin to form a backing, apply this to the entire inside and form it at least 1 inch across the space being patched, allow to cure then use a grinder / knife . scissors to trim the matting to shape after it cures. once this sets you can use a fiber and resin mix to apply filler, key is to have a strong enough backing that u can press firmly the new resin, you want all filler applied at once so no air bubbles and a slight overbuild is needed, then after filler cures can be sanded,
using a cured resin and matting as a form is far easier and stronger then using straight filler and should work well without having to remove very much of the previous installed repair material.
How did you confirm that the frame is 'confirmed square'????
Did confirm the body is squared by using the index holes in the door sill areas???
You are NOT going to be able to fix the frame horns UNLESS you use serious hydraulic pressure...like having it put on a frame machine and pulled.
And KNOWING that if you have damage at the frame horns..the chances and possibility that the frame is tweaked is highly likely and also the placement of the lower a-arms maybe off also. So unless oyu have taken it to a body shop that has a good frame machine and paid them to set-up and measure out the car...you can look at it and never see any problems due to the damage is not so extreme to actually cause the steel to kink....but still make it out of whack.
Here are frame measurements for a 1975 and should be what you need.
I confirmed all measurements on the diagram and did a few of my own based on the geometry of the frame to confirm the square. I am an engineer, so yes, I know how to do proper measurements and read dimensions on a diagram like the one you showed. The body with the door sill holes is within tolerance levels as they were used when I replaced the #2/3 and #6/7 body mount bushings and bolts. All measurements I did came well within standard tolerances, by that I mean less than half a percent error.
Thank you derek, though at the moment I am not concerned with the frame horns being bent as the body issue is more pressing to be able to work on the next coming parts of the car. The frame horns will be looked at when I get around to them, though with winter coming up and garage space becoming a premium I need to get the body sorted so some of the stuff I have yanked out can go back. I also am modifying the front end area, so I will not repair them until I am ready to finish designs on the modifications. So the front clip's warp/rotation/offset is the current problem that needs solving. The plan for this weekend is to confirm whether the front clip is rotated or warped/bent in some way.
IF you plan on using the hydraulic tools that were previously mentioned. Keep in mind that the frame of the car more than likely will need to be secured so it will not move. Because jacking against one of your frame horns and having the other end of the hydraulic potra-power up against a wall in your shop.( for example) The car will move when you try to bend the rail end back into position. Only reason I am saying this is because I do this type of work for a living on a professional level and do not want you to run into any problems.
Hopefully you can measure out your frame as like the diagram I posted earlier and all is good....and you a can figure out what is going on with the clip being tweaked.
05-31-2018, 12:47 PM
Body Repair Advice
