KNOT-HEAD

Thanks. I have been told that by a friend of mine that is very knowledgeably about racing motorcycles and cars. I'm not that very savvy when it comes to figuring out all the technical stuff it takes to get the maximum out of a motor/transmission/rear end and so on. Someone recommended a 290/290 with a 470 lift. My problem is that doesn't mean diddly to me! I know I'm just cry babying, but I have just made a world of uneducated decisions based on what other uneducated people directed me to do. Right now I'm trying to pull myself out of the sewage and end up with something I can be proud of without needlessly spending a great deal more money. I will talk to the current mechanic to see if he can make a recommendation for the proper cam and what ever it takes to make it work. Now is the time to make any internal upgrades. I just wish I knew more. I haven't put my head under a car for any reasonable amount of time scene the late 70's. Back then, I really did't have much money to spend and now I seem to just be throwing good money after bad. I'm pray this mechanic shop will lead me in the correct direction... Only time will tell.

zmanabba

The first post that I made was before I had coffee, so apologies are in order. No one starts out as an expert and I am far from one. If you have time, do some research. The main obstacle that you will be facing is that there is almost too much information on a small block Chevy build. The cam range that your friend is suggesting is miles ahead of what you have now. You might find in your research that you find something better to your needs. At the age of 55 I still am learning about cam choices. If I could point you in a direction, however, Look towards a cam with a split towards the exhaust side ( more duration and lift on the exhaust ). There are cam designers that favor a cam like your friend's suggestion or even one guy out there that suggests less lift and more duration but the majority favor more on the exhaust side. You are doing a good thing by wanting to learn and I hope that you follow it through. You have been given a bad engine that wasn't your fault. One thought is to reinstall the original engine , if it's in good shape, this will give you time to build up the crap engine into what you want. It's more important to be driving and enjoying. Keep the down time to a minimum.

Vette5311

Thumper, ***** Thumper, etc all suck, they are a joke unless your going for idle sound only!

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks for the input but again I must depend on the shop working on the engine now to help make the correct decisions on what can be accomplished with my limited desire to just throw money at the thing. So far they have solved a great deal of problems the other guys caused so I hope the bill will not put me into a cardiac arrest. I am planning on putting my original engine back in the car with any reusable upgrade parts that are in the junk engine. Some should enhance performance and others hopefully will just make the engine more efficient and durable (see attached file). I am also asking the shop as well as a diesel helicopter friend of mine that has a 76. His is a killer car but he not only has all the technical knowledge needed to make it top of the line... he also has the money to spend on it. I just want to get the car and drive the hell out of it for once. I have had it almost two years and have not been able to put more than 500 miles on it, because of the problems that have been caused by inadequate mechanics that are used to plugging in a computer to trouble shoot an engine. Once I get the major work completed, I will be able to maintain it. Thanks for all the input.....
ddhebert

cv67

Almost looks like the heads you pulled off have stock valve springs on them? Hope the new guy sets them up right for your cam...cl and the car world are full of losers sorry you got bit by one. It will be worth it when its right & you take that first ride.

Youre not the only one...anyone who thinks their new engine will just cost what the ad says is nuts its always way more...plus redoing stuff, defective parts, pieces that dont fit etc all part of it.

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks. The new guys are the ones that realized I needed heaver springs. The engine would backfire at around 3500 rpm's. I thought it was the timing, but naturally I was wrong...AGAIN! Thanks to everyone's input I'm replacing the Mother Thumper cam. I don't know with what. I will leave that to the new guys. Even though other knowledgeable people told me about that cam, because I have already wasted so much money on the car, I didn't want to go through the additional expense of going into the engine. Now I'm going to put it together the right way...the hell with the cost [at least until my wife catches wind of this]! I have only put less than 100 miles on that engine. I think I'm going to change my log in name to "KNOT-HEAD". That is what my daddy used to call me. What is the hardest part of a tree? THE KNOT! Guess I haven't changed much in the last 67 years.
I know I'm not the only one... but that does not make the facts any harder to swallow. I have mainly chosen the wrong people to work on the car, when I should have been working on it myself, from the beginning. Yea, I have plenty excuses (limestone double car port and 95 degrees, 67 years old, 330 pounds [100 pounds over weight], don't see very well, Essential tremors [my hands shake when I attempt to use them] and just down right lazy). Well I concreted the car port, got a couple of good fans plus it's beginning to cool off in South Louisiana, realize I only have about 20 years left to live and need to make the best of them, lost 15 pounds, still can't see worth a damn, just have to deal with the tremors [vaping Hemp Oil helps], made up my mind to quit taking *** whippings and do it myself [after the major work has been completed]. I sure miss my 96 Road King (the flood of 2016 took it). This car was supposed to be a suitable replacement for it but it has just been a pain in my ***.
Thanks again. With all of the knowledgeable people on this site that are willing to share their trials and tribulations with "KNOT-HEADS" like me, this car is going to be a show stopper.
KNOT-HEAD

OldCarBum

Start with the basics and keep in mind that every component in the motor has to work together with all the components in the car including transmission and rear end gearing.
Don't worry about how much torque and horsepower the motor will put out in rpm ranges you will never run at.
If you plan to street cruise you don't need a large cam that makes peak hp at or over 6000 rpm.
For a street cruiser you may want peak hp and torque at 5200-5400 rpm and might look at hydraulic roller cams that have a power range of 1200 to 5400 rpm and keep compression ratio at around 9.0 to 1.
Pick yourself up a good set of heads that will flow well and match the needs of the cam/ bore/stroke/compression ratio.
Throw on a good carb, intake, ignition system and headers and you should be very happy with the results.
Don't get hung up on big lift loopy cams or horsepower numbers from a dyno run.
I'm in the process of building a big cubic inch motor that is estimated to put out tons of torque and hp, but I'll never put it on a dyno because as long as it runs strong and is dependable, I don't really care about dyno numbers and bragging rights.
Find a good performance machine shop with a good reputation to help you out.

KNOT-HEAD

Thank you for the advice. The mechanic shop has brought my original block to a reputable machine shop to be checked out before we go any further with it. I will give them your recommendations so they can pick a suitable cam. My diesel helicopter mechanic friend has a set of vortex drilled for a SBC, with valves, heavy springs and pinned studs for a large cam. I already have a Edelbrock carb, high rise intake manifold, high volume fuel pump, Copper Core spark plugs, 160 degree thermostat, DUI GM Street/Strip distributor, Patriot PTE-H8025-1 headers, Doug DOU-DEC250AK electric exhaust cut-outs, rebuilt 700r4 transmission and 2500 stall converter. Now all I need is at least one of the two engines I have in good condition so I can put them on. The bad thing is... I'm already into the mechanic shop for around $4k and I don't have a running engine yet. I may be better off buying a 383 from JEGS for around $3.5k instead of rebuilding what I have. Only time will tell!!!!
KNOT-HEAD

pauldana

Yes,,, yes, by all means... get a Jeggs 383 crate motor... you have nothing up there worth keeping. ^^^^^

I can see anything else going all bad, I know you are here for advice, some that has been given you is good... some not so good... fast, reliable, cheep... you can only pick 2,, My boys and I race these cars, we have 6 of them all the way up the CX tree...
I am not going to get into a stitch over who I disagree with here, but IMHO, you are not ready to pick parts to assemble your own engine yet,,, you need more time to learn junk parts from quality parts, what works with what and what does not....There are a lot of "go cheep" racers here,, and thats cool.. reliable power cost money.. reliable mechanics are hard to find... truthful ones even harder to find... get the Jeggs.... get the best one you can for the money... remember, there is no replacement for displacement... 383? go a 396, or a 427 sbc.. jmho.... good luck
p

Vette5311

mobird

So out of curiosity, how come you are trusting this new shop so much? If the last one (or two) have screwed you over, or given you bad advice on parts/cam choice, why trust that this new shop isn't going to take you for a ride?

Honestly, the only way you can know is to learn. Sounds like you have very little understanding (I don't mean that AT ALL as an insult, everyone starts somewhere!) of your motor, so any of these shops can tell you what is wrong or what you need, and you have to believe them because they are the "Experts".

If I were you, I would take a deep breath, and start learning. The internet is a FANTASTIC resource for learning about your motor, and your motor happens to be one of the most researched motors around. There are multiple magazines and video series that cover every aspect of the Small Block Chevy. Once you have a better understanding of how everything works together, and what makes certain parts better than others, you can make a more educated decision on what to do with your motor. Otherwise you forever have to trust others to make those decisions and recommendations for you, and as you learned the hard way, sometimes they will make the WRONG decisions and WRONG recommendations!

73racevette

Agree with everything Mobird said. If you have not already, you might visit the summit website (or jegs) and get a few books. Something like this...https://www.summitracing.com/nv/parts/sad-sa57 There are many many more of these types of books and they help immensly. Better than trying to weed through random advice on the web as well IMO.

Sunstroked

OldCarBum

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks again,
I'm looking at a JEGS blueprinted SBC 383CI Dressed 420/450TQ W/aluminum heads
Cam Specs:
Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Duration: @ .050" Lift: 292 Intake / 230 Exhaust
Lift: .480" Intake / .486" Exhaust

The junk engine has a Comp 287T H-107 Mother Thumper cam.
Cam Specs:
Duration @ .050" Lift: 287 Intake 235 / 249 Exhaust
Lobe Lift: Intake .3270 / Exhaust .3170
Lobe separation: 107.0

HERE IS WHERE I NEED ALL THE HELP I CAN GET...I have two concerns:
1. Is this engine going to be too tall to fit under my original L82 hood. If not, that is more money to replace and paint the hood.
2. I KNOW... The Mother Thumper cam is crap and I sacrifice power for sound. Look! I'm a 67 year old, 320 pound (this morning) fat man... I'm not going to be racing this or any other car. I really liked the sound of the Mother Thumper cam in combination with the Patriot headers, Doug electric cut-outs and would like the new engine to sound close to the same (ex-18 year old 57 Chevy Belair board to 292 with 375 Iskey cam, ex-Harley Road King with low end cam rider). I like the acceleration and the sound of high horsepower and loping cams.

I have no ideas what the new engine and cam will sound like. Can anyone let me know if it will be a similar sound as the MT cam? I will call JEGS to see if the engine will fit under the existing hood. I would really like to have the 420hp but I just don't want to spend more than I have too.

I have been looking at something else. I have the parts that I can salvage off the other two engines and put on a 383 crate engine but they will reduce the potential 420hp and I don't know bu how much and how much money it will save me because of the added labor cost involved in making the swap.
1. New 7 quart oil pan (no hp drop)
2. New Melling high volume oil pump (no hp drop)
3. New SUM-G3502P oil pickup (no hp drop)
3. Original Edelbrock high rise intake manifold, originally on the 350 L82 (HP DROP)
4. Original Quadrojet, or Edelbrock (not sure what size but I will check) carburetor (HP DROP)
5. NEW DUI GM Street/Strip distributor (no hp drop)

Please correct me if I am wrong. I should be able to not only save some money by salvaging my new/existing parts. The lower profile of the Edelbrock high rise manifold and one of the two existing carburetors will allow the 383/420hp engine block to fit under my existing hood. I just don't know how much HP I will loose. I'm thinking even with the horse power loss it will still be a hell of a lot of power in that light of a car. I would really appreciate any light anyone could shine on my concerns.

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks,
I have been looking In JEGS and Summit. I haven't noticed anything that was specifically "Nebraska". What difference does "Nebraska" make?

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks for the advice and NO, I did not take it the wrong way. I have people that just sugar coat things and beat around the bush. I'm a face to face, toe to toe kind of old school guy. I appreciate the same out of others. You are 100% correct in your evaluation. I have many issues with working on the car myself, even though I would love too and hopefully will do in the near future. These are not excuses... just facts. I'm a 67 year old, 320lb...this morning, fat man that doesn't see very well, 5 partially crushed vertebrae, arthritis, working under a car port in south Louisiana where the temperature reaches in the 100's. I worked on cars in high school (graduated in 1969). Started working at 12 years old. Saved enough money to pay for my own car insurance and buy my first car at 15. It was my dream car, a 57 Chevy Belair. I was street racing the car, blew the engine and didn't have the money to repair it. I a friend offered me a few hundred dollars for the car. I was engaged to be married (that's why I didn't have the money to fix my first true love...THE 57), was leaving for college on a full football scholarship so I sold the car to my friend. After that I lost interest in muscle cars for a while. My next car was a Renault Daphne. If you are under 40... you will have to look it up. It was similar to a Volkswagen Beetle. I needed something economical on gas to drive back and fourth to college. After all, regular gas had jumped up to over 30 cents a gallon. Now I'm with my second wife and best friend. Raised two boys, now in their late 30's. Lost my third true love in the Louisiana flood of 2016 (96 Harley Road King with a low end cam) and decided to replace it with a muscle car instead of another bike.....BIG MISTAKE.

So, with all that bull out of the way. I am limited to what I can do so I depend on others for direction. I made bad choices. First picking a car on impulse instead of taking it to have it checked out by a reputable mechanic shop. Second, I was impatient and did not wait for the person that came highly recommended as a Corvette Restorer, to restore the car, so I brought it to one of those "friend of a friend" shade tree mechanics. Another big mistake and so on and so on! Now I have a mechanic shop that my oldest son and one of my close friends (a diesel helicopter mechanic and owner of a cherry 76 Corvette) recommended (both are perfectionist). I feel very good about this shop. Problem is... they are very expensive, but you have to pay for quality.

With the help of my friend and the good people on this site, I am gradually learning the technical aspect of the internal combustion engine. I wish I had made better choices in the past....but I did not. Live and learn. So, going ahead, I am trying to look before I leap and it is hard for someone like me to do...but I getting better at it. I'm now hoping I am making the correct decision in getting a crate engine instead of trying to paying this new shop to repair what I have. Only time will tell. I hope I answered all your questions. I do hope to learn more as time goes on but for now, I am at the mercy of others.

NOT-HEAD

Taijutsu

KH: Some of the forum members have the experience and knowledge to piece together an engine from parts on hand.
For most of us we have to trust others to do things correctly.
Then pay them to do that! lol

You might want to use the search and see what other members are running for an engine combo.
and how they like it!

I doubt a crate engine will measure up to a hand built custom engine.
But for many of us it is a good place to start.

BTW: Getting ripped off seems to be commonplace for too many of us! WTF

JMHO

R

KNOT-HEAD

THANKS,
I have been looking at both JEGS and Summit. After considering all the advice I have received both from the good people on this site but also some of my trusted friends, it looks like a crate engine is going to be the best rout for me to take instead of attempting to rebuild one of my two existing engines. Even though I do go with a crate engine, I will still want to continue to boost the "aaaaaw factor" of driving a 77 Corvette.

NOT-HEAD

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks for the input. I agree, a crate engine will not match the quality of an engine that is designed and built by a highly qualified technician. My diesel helicopter mechanic friend, that owns a 76 Corvette, in cherry condition had a football party at his house yesterday and naturally the first thing I ask him about was the crate engines I have found. He starts trying to explain the lift and duration of a cam, the flow of the heads, the correct vacuum pressure and how much will be lost by using an incompatible cam...bla, bla, bla.!!!! All that went right over my balding head. I feel I am not even close to the point of intelligently picking the correct parts to assemble a state of the art engine I would love to have. I have to depend on others and hopefully will be more successful in the future than I have been in the past. A little knowledge is a VERY expensive thing.

KNOT-HEAD