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'72 starter circuit wiring, intermittent problem

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Old Oct 4, 2018 | 01:00 PM
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Default '72 starter circuit wiring, intermittent problem

When hot, the starter sometimes won't crank from the key switch.
It isn't the solenoid, as a jumper wire to the solenoid will crank it over fine when the key switch won't.
It isn't the ignition switch, as it was replaced for another reason and the problem still exists.

This seems to leave either the neutral safety switch, or

The bulk head connector as the most likely culprits.

Being intermittent, it is kind of hard to track down. The car will crank a dozen times hot, then one time it won't.There has never been a problem when cold.

Questions:

1) Is there a known problem with bulk head connectors being flaky after several decades? This is original, but in good shape, wiring.

2) The connectors are not real easy to get to, but look like they can be accessed from below with enough leverage to get them loose, do the connector just need to be muscled out, or are there latches/tabs that need to be manipulated to get the connectors loose?

3) does the inner or outer connector contain the starter wires? The wiring diagram suggests the inner connector?

4) is there a greater chance of this being a neutral safety switch issue? Neither connectors or the switch are real easy to get to. The NSS is subject to less heat than the bulkhead junction, but it does get warm inside the console.

Thanks,
Doug

Last edited by AZDoug; Oct 4, 2018 at 01:01 PM.
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Old Oct 4, 2018 | 02:01 PM
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The engine side of the bulkhead connector has a bolt in the center that secures it to the back of the fuse panel. And the engine side is split into the engine harness and the forward light harness. I've seen the goo the factory put on there to keep out water dry out and allow some water in and cause some corrosion. On the fuse panel side, the purple 10ga wires go to the NSS or clutch switch from the ignition switch. Both 10ga, one is purple and the other is purple with a white stripe. That said, from the ignition switch, that wire goes to both the NSS and clutch- the connectors are there, they just used the one that is required.
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Old Oct 5, 2018 | 05:30 AM
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Had the same issue, even a new starter did not cure it completely.
Do you hear the solenoid click when trying to start ?
Then the reason might be a voltage drop so that the solenoid is just able to engage the starter wheel to the flywheel (the clicking sound) but not enough to close the electrical contacts which drive the starter motor.

In the end I just inserted a relais (same logic as with the front lights); did this start of this year and never had a non-start since then.
Hope this helps.
Robert
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Old Oct 5, 2018 | 06:43 AM
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I bought my c3 not running with the starter circuit melted. After replacing the melted portion of the harness with new harness I had to plug and unplug the bulk head connector a few times to get it to seat correctly. This involves carefully tighteng the bolt at the center of the connector that holds the large connector to the firewall. Pic shows how the inner portion of the firewall connector can be removed for repairs to back of fuse box area ( probably not needed in your case)
I do recomend cleaning and re seating the 4 pin plug that is part of the harness that runs along top of firewall from brake booster area to blower fan area. My 4 pin connector was badly melted and needed to be replaced. Both connectors could be high resistance voltage drops.
In my case the wiring apparently melted when previous owner held key to start for a prolonged period of time. There are fusible links a few inches from the starter that had been replaced with regular wire sometime before causing the total meltdown.







Last edited by Greengear; Oct 5, 2018 at 06:56 AM.
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Old Oct 5, 2018 | 12:14 PM
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There is NO click when it doesn't want to start, it either starts great, or nothing, via the key.

That 4 pin connector you show, is it part of the starter circuit, or something else completely?

Bad connectors connections is a real possibility, I had to clean both the horn and blower motor connectors when both of those stopped working, cleaning them solved the problems on those.

Thanks,
Doug
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Old Oct 6, 2018 | 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AZDoug
There is NO click when it doesn't want to start, it either starts great, or nothing, via the key.

That 4 pin connector you show, is it part of the starter circuit, or something else completely?

Bad connectors connections is a real possibility, I had to clean both the horn and blower motor connectors when both of those stopped working, cleaning them solved the problems on those.

Thanks,
Doug
The 4 pin plug contains the starter solenoid wire.
Checking the 4 pin first makes sense because it is so much easier to get to than the firewall main harness connector. You will see the 4 pin plug sitting close to firewall and wiper motor .




Last edited by Greengear; Oct 6, 2018 at 06:47 AM.
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Old Oct 7, 2018 | 05:52 PM
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What year is your car? I don't see any connector like that, that jumps right out at me on my '72 car to the right side of the engine.

I DID see some a lump of non standard cloth friction tape around the starter wires about 8" back from the solenoid at the firewall wire clip. Maybe the PO did one of his bubba repairs there with a wire nut or similar connector and that is causing my problem. I will get it up on a lift when it stops raining and unwrap that little package and see what is there, and solder the joint if it isn't soldered.

Doug

Originally Posted by Greengear

The 4 pin plug contains the starter solenoid wire.
Checking the 4 pin first makes sense because it is so much easier to get to than the firewall main harness connector. You will see the 4 pin plug sitting close to firewall and wiper motor .



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Old Oct 7, 2018 | 06:29 PM
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I think the starter harness shown in the pictures started around 77. Dito on the rest of the advise though. Heat is the enemy of electricity, so it make sense that it would be more likely to happen warm. If you can find the clutch switch plug under the dash and put a jumper in it( cause it's easier to get at then the nss) as a test for awhile it would tell you that if it doesn't have the start issue, then the nss is probably the culprit. The jumper will complete the circuit in parallel with the nss, but be aware it will start in any gear.
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Old Oct 8, 2018 | 07:29 AM
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Pics show my 77. Didnt realize your car has different wiring. Sorry for disapointing advice.
Worst comes to worst follow the solenoid wire the entire path. Also worth trying a jumper as mentioned above. It would be interesting to put a negative jumper from starter body to batt negative next time it acts up. I know that adding a positive jumper directly to solenoid makes it work but try a negative jumper and key switch too.
The friction tape sounds like it might be in the right location where someone removed fusible links. Definitely check inside that tape. Wire nuts plus grease plus 30 years is a good recepie for intermittent connection.

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