fazang

Hi, i tried to get a starter at NAPA, they only had one and looks like too much work to make work.

my old one i bench tested and solenoid works but motor no spin.
it's a 1108338 with date code 9 A 15
it has 4 terminals on solenoid and another ground on the back of the motor casing.

The new one only has 3, there is no "R" terminal. And it came with bunch of shims.

Does anyone know if they still sell plug-in play bolt in starters? was not looking to rewire ignition switch, and re-terminate grounds....

Here are some pics:
both https://photos.app.goo.gl/e4EHUygGQZQNnshRA
old https://photos.app.goo.gl/aCZQ7TvRD2SWEcQi9
solenoid wiring https://photos.app.goo.gl/wb5oDwYL5ZjVpdVE9
ground wire on motor https://photos.app.goo.gl/X1BAKnS5ZKknfLSKA

new one shims https://photos.app.goo.gl/jwNZ9ToWV1dkntqFA
new one https://photos.app.goo.gl/1PQYkDYGYBwAtu3d7

EDIT: i chickened out and returned NAPA starter, and got one from Advanced Auto parts, this one looks identical to my old one. Gonna start comparing and see if i can through it in and start this darn car up !

fazang

Well looks like Advance auto does not have a fitting one either ?
My block has the 3 holes to mount this new type of starter, but i can't get it to fit the nose in the Bell housing.

Can anyone see what part is hitting ?
Should i just return it and just try to rebuild mine?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/io6un8jP7UA58Gnu6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6MfWPtnhpaDSWhbn6

derekderek

Yes that's the wrong starter. That's the starter for the six-cylinder Chevy or other small diameter 153 tooth flywheel starter. You need a starter for the 168 tooth flywheel.

derekderek

the R terminal provides a hotter spark while cranking the starter with points ignition. If you're still running points ignition, you need this. And the likelihood of the solenoid being able to swap to the different starter is somewhat reduced cuz they were all different sizes of solenoids and the hammer the big piston inside the solenoid. I built starters for a living for around a decade back when these things were new.

Hammerhead Fred

With that date code that's likely your original starter - or a really old/lucky replacement.
"Usually" the brushes go bad which stops the motor from spinning up.
If mine I'd rebuild.
Disassemble; check continuity on the windings; If good then clean an replace the brushes.
The brushes are cheap and easy to install. If wrong you're only out some time and the cost of the brushes.
You can go all out and for $20 purchase a rebuild kit with brushes, bushings, springs, and holders.

fazang

Your talkin bout the Advance auto one right ?

derekderek

the first one is a universal starter, as long as you have electronic ignition. That double set of holes? You could mount it either in closer for the smaller flywheel or outboard farther with the bigger flywheel. But you don't have the r terminal for the hotter spark with points. The second one is the one I was talking about from Advance Auto, yes.

derekderek

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...hoC1zAQAvD_BwE

deane

I still have one out of a 69 car. Worked when it came out. You can have it if you come and get it. Its in Mass.

stingr69

The bell housing will only accept the right matching nose cone.

It looks like the staggered bolt pattern nose for the larger 168 tooth flywheel is required. The 153 tooth starter nose cone for the smaller flywheel uses a straight across bolt pattern and will not fit the opening in the larger bell housing even if it will fit the block.

The original pre-1975 points style ignition uses a 4 wire setup while the '75 and later had HEI so they only use 3 wires. The 4th wire on the points equipped cars was a bypass around the main coil resistance wire, It was used to send a full 12V to the ignition coil only during cranking. Gives ignition a boost. Using it is not mandatory but it does help.

Find a different store if they cant get you the right starter. This is not that difficult.

fazang

Morning, thank you everyone for the advice. Between going to a rebuilder local to me, buying one at Summit or Rockauto.com i think i can get my hands on a working starter. Will post when i have one in hand.
-ALF out...

Calo69

Had my original startrer on my 69 L46 rebuilt it worked out great, no shims adjustment just right back in where it has been for almost 50 yrs. Starts great, rebuild shop commented on how well built/ and solid the old ones are compared to newer stuff. It also was less than $100 so home run so far. Good luck

fazang

Well i had mine rebuilt locally thanks https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...radleyb66.html
The guy was pretty cool, but did not appreciate me asking to bench test before i took it. Oh well.

it's back in but still no crank no start.
So i'm combing through the manuals and learning how to proper test for voltage drop, fun is....
90% sure i hooked it up right.
Just made an album in case anyone see obvious mess-up on my part
https://photos.app.goo.gl/v4aMBwUkXGsUSVT69

nice vid here

sucks some of this is 2 person job, reading DVM while someone turns the key...
-ALF

Hammerhead Fred

You should have started your thread with the symptom above as everyone would have given you much different suggestions.
So now you have a really nice starter. Time to do some troubleshooting. (BTW: the ground cable you have connected from the frame to the tail of the starter is usually bolted to the block - no impact on your issue though)
No crank/start can be many things other than the starter.
Neutral safety/clutch switch, ignition switch, battery cable/ground, miss-wired solenoid, bad starter.
Have you verified that the positive cable is hot at the starter?
Is your battery good/charged?
Is the trans in park/neutral OR is the clutch pushed in?
Does the ignition switch acc/on position allow the radio/aux items to function?

fazang

Hi thanks, i am not sure how much of the car has been messed with, the ground wire on the back of the motor casing was bolted there before i pulled it for the rebuild so i put it back there.
AFA your questions
"Have you verified that the positive cable is hot at the starter?" i saw 12.xx volts on cable at solenoid but learned that needs to be checked while turning the key...

Batter is coming on 1 year old.

Yes you have to put clutch to floor to start when turning the key.

I only checked parking lights for dimming while turning key to start, they did not dim.

I'll report back once i have done some real testing.
-ALF out...

Syl1953

Hammerhead Fred

Large cable running to the starter from +12 of battery is always hot

derekderek

Not just hot. You should be able to arc weld with it. Cuz you can have enough continuity to read 12 volts, but won't provide the Amps to do the job. You will see this in lower amp circuits also.

fazang

Hi again, Got a new DVM [and battery charger ] so took a baby step last weekend.
1. took battery out of car and charged it. DVM said 13.6 so i know charger is working
2. put battery back in car and got 12.4v
3. tried to setup DVM on seat so i could read it while cranking and the battery still read 12.3v

I think i need to do what Syl1953 said and unbolt the neg cable on frame under the Battery and wire brush and do this test again.
IF i clean neg cable and still get 12.3v while cranking do i check the switch on the clutch pedal next ? should i jump it with a paper clip ?

thanks for all the help BTW.
I was reading this thread, sounded a lot like me but not, so looked at it for testing procedures.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...turn-over.html
-ALF

fazang

Hi again, i have another question. Did some testing with my bro turning the key while i work the DVM.
With key turned to start i tried to get readings at

1. pos bat post on the selonoid and touching motor housing. went from 12.3 to 11.9
so i think that is small enough drop there is no problem there. you agree?

2. neg bat bolt on frame under car by battery and the frame itself.
i got 0.0 so no voltage drop there, if i did that test right ?

3. terminal on the coil and touching some bare metal. [ not the terminal going to the dizzy, the other one]
i got 0.5 - 0.56 volts. I have no idea what to expect but was thinking 12 volts.
What should i have seen here ????

Sadly i may have found a new problem, after testing the coil terminal by bro left key on "run"
and after 2-3 min we saw smoke coming up between back of dizzy and chrome metal shielding. :-(
it was like a lit cigarette type of smoke show, but little less smoke. turn key off and it stopped.

Then i tried [no sure if this was a waste of time ?] and diconnected the "R" terminal from starter and tried to start
car and no change. My guess was this was the wire going to coil and maybe making the smoke ?

Before i give up i think i will try to verify the safety switch is not causing the no crank.
Found this nice pic of clutch safety switch here
https://www.corvettecentral.com/prod...104-2.main.jpg
I will try to paperclip it and wrap in tape to not short anything if it touches something
and try to start car to rule out the switch.

I have chassis manual with me today so will try to flip through it at lunch.
https://www.opgi.com/common/ST13069-lrg.jpg

Hope someone has time to reply, thanks.
-ALF