Julius Rosenthal

So I'm in the market for a new composite spring. Tried to get my hands on a vbp 330 to replace my old vbp and it looks like they're out of business.

​​​So a few questions:
What's the relationship between hyperco and vansteel?
Are they the same?
Is one significantly better than the other? It seems I can get hyperco for a little less looking at identical spring ratings.
Also, vansteel 330's are on back order and I'm impatient
Any other brand suggestions?
​​​​​​
Thanks
Julius

GUSTO14

TRW also makes a variety of composite springs for Corvettes. Some of the vendors carry them as well as eBay. Just be sure your get the spring rate you are looking for.
https://www.ebay.com/p/1963-1977-Corvette-Rear-Composite-Spring-With-Hardware-355lb/594619217?iid=173626438312&chn=ps

I've dealt with Vansteel for many years and never been disappointed with their products or service. They are also one of the few vendors that has continued to conduct R&D around the basic C2 - C3 suspension. They have brought a number of components to market in recent years that add significantly to the handling characteristics of the C2/C3 at affordable prices. That doesn't mean they haven't moved into the 21st Century, it just means they haven't forgotten us amidst all the modern (albeit high dollar) chassis that have follow the C4, C5 and C6 chassis. My point of course is that, all else being equal, and when I can, I will always support a vendor that remembers where they started from.

I've also found their technical support to be some of the best and most helpful in the industry. Even if you don't purchase from them, you might want to check with them before buying a spring as there seems to be a wide variation among different manufacturers and the spring rates they sell, that will affect ride height.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...te-spring.html

Good luck... GUSTO

Julius Rosenthal

Thank you GUSTO, with your response in mind (and that very helpful thread link) I've decided to give TRW a shot and see how I like it. I might end up returning/reselling it for a Vansteel a little down the line but I'm curious how the TRW will ride. Going with the 440# kit.

OldCarBum

Julius Rosenthal

point taken, I just read through the thread you were talking about and now rethinking my decision. Anyone care to comment on hyperco springs? Seems like there isn't nearly as much info out there on these compared to VBP (Rest in peace) and Vansteel

jb78L-82

I have had my VBP360 monospring on my 78 C3 since I installed it in 1986-Of course, a great product and now gone.

I would stay away from the TRW springs since the composite Arc on their springs will adversely effect the rear ride height.

I would also steer clear of the hyperco composites since they are all rated with VERY low spring rates and will give your sports car C3 a ride and handling like a 70's cadillac....run away. I know of one forum member who wanted a hyperco spring since she wanted a VERY soft ride...go figure.......

The beauty of the composites is that you can run MUCH higher spring rates than a steel spring BUT with a MUCH superior ride than the lower rated steel spring....Hyperco springs defeat the real benefits of the composite spring versus Steel

Julius Rosenthal

You say that hyperco only has low spring rates but I'm looking at one on Ecklers that's supposedly rated at 330# (part number 25-177017-1 on their website)
I was planning on going with a 330 from VanSteel (which is currently on backorder by something like a month). I'm interested to know your thoughts on it, I've seen plenty of people on here using 330 ratings with satisfied results, just not the hyperco brand unit.

jb78L-82

No first hand knowledge of hyperco but early on they were marketing very soft spring rates for those that wanted a VERY soft ride...sounds like they are trying to fill the VBP niche moving into the higher spring rates.

A 330 spring is a good intermediate rate. Personally not sure you will notice much difference between a 330 and 360 spring. To me, either go 300 if you have a base suspension C3 or 360 spring if you have or want the gymkhana type handling with a great ride...firm but not harsh with Bilstein Sport shocks.

In my opinion after having the VBP 360 for over 30 years now is that the 360 is too soft for a sporting C3...I will go 420 if I ever replace my spring. I would recommend 330 for those that want a softer ride with good handling. My 10 C6Z06 rides MUCH stiffer than my C3 as well as my 2012 Lexus IS 350 F Sport and my 08 Chrysler 300 with Bilstein Struts and Shocks. Another words, my 78 with the 360 spring is soft by today's sporting car standards....sedans as well.

Priya

Gee I hope you're right! I have a Hyperco rear spring I have yet to put on.

StDomingos

Always find it interesting that someone who admits “no first hand knowledge” of a product has no problem making pronouncements about it. From my first hand knowledge, the original Hyperco springs do not ride like a 70s Cadillac. They ride like a factory 80-82 corvette; moderately firm, certainly not plush. In my discussions with the folks at VanSteel the spring rates of the high arch springs are not comparable “apples to apples” with a low arch spring as the high arch spring has deflected much more with the suspension settled.

I have not used any of the low arch composite springs so I won’t make any guesses about how they perform. I will concur that VanSteel are knowledgeable, helpful and make a quality product.

76strokervette

I have been told by a very reliable source that Van Steel bought the rights to most of the VBP performance products.
That is where I would start if you want the same part.

GUSTO14

Vansteel has had a close and cordial relationship with VB&P for many years. I know they were as troubled by the circumstances that led to VB&P's problems as many of us were.

Good luck... GUSTO

jb78L-82

yes, Priya I do remember you wanted a soft ride...............and asked a while back about the hyperco for that very reason since no one else at that time offered a composite with such low spring rates.

jb78L-82

Well since you "Always find it interesting that someone who admits “no first hand knowledge” of a product has no problem making pronouncements about it," I will provide this one time for you some context to my comments since you clearly are implying that I am a novice at this whole C3 thing and suspensions.

I have spent most of adult life working on my original OEM 1978 L-82 4 speed gymkhana suspended C3 improving the suspension, steering, handling and ride based my personal experience racing formula cars and sedans, coupled with my scientific technical background. Back in the mid 80's, I was aware that GM was using the composite spring on Base suspension ONLY 80-82 C3's and the aftermarket began to offer composite springs in substantially higher spring rates than what GM was using on the Base 80-82's.

Do you know what the spring rate was that was installed on the 80-82's base cars? Well, I do and it was VERY SOFT compared to all previous year C3's. How soft? Well 172 lbs/in which is VERY cadillac like ride soft. In fact, the 80-82 base cars were the softest sprung C3's of that generation by much, well documented in the car literature at the time, that those C3's were more boulevard cruisers than sports car and GM purposely was trying to make the ride plush. The Gymkhana cars continued with the previous years stiffer suspension with a sport steel spring, only used on the gymkhana cars 80-82, of which there were very few that were produced with the gymkhana suspension. Most 80-82's had the base suspension.

How stiff? The gymkhana steel spring was 292 lbs/in versus the composite 172! That difference is MUCH bigger than the numbers indicate since the 292 lbs steel springs is equivalent to a 360 composite in stiffness and reaction characteristics so comparing it to 172 lbs composite is essentially comparing it to a marshmellow spring since the 172 lbs composite is VERY soft riding even versus a steel 172 lbs spring.

The hyperco as priya pointed out originally was the only company offering a composite in the 172lbs OEM composite spring rate since most folks do not want that 80-82 cadillac soft ride in their C3. She does want that spring rate and I hope when it is installed, it provides the ride she is looking for. Since Hyperco originally entered the market to fill the OEM low composite spring rate, I advised to steer clear of them if you are looking for a sport spring rate ,plus, there are very good alternatives like Van Steel.

My VBP 360 monospring that I installed myself back in 1986 (that would be 33 years of personal experience) rides better than most C3's that had the 192 lb base suspension springs, by far. You cannot directly compare a composite spring rate number with a steel spring counterpart since the compression and rebound characteristics of the 2 types of springs are different. Besides the weight savings and longevity characteristics of the composite (it will not lose compression like a steel spring over its useful life), the big advantage of the composite spring is its ability to allow much higher spring rates BUT with a better ride and handling characteristics than a steel counterpart. This fact is the reason that GM still uses composite transverse leaf springs on it corvettes like my 10 C6Z06!

But what do I know...............

StDomingos

I have no doubt that you have a lot of experience with Corvettes, I've been on this board for years and read plenty of your posts. I also know that you have no first hand experience with that product and so your assessment of it is an educated guess at best.

My 81 is a factory gymkhana car. I elected to swap out the metal spring for the a composite when the factory spring was worn out and chose the Hyperco in consultation with VanSteel. I had the pleasure/misfortune of owning a number of late 70's and early 80's American full-sized grocery-getters and recall pretty clearly what the "marshmallow" suspensions in those cars felt like. I find the Hyperco spring (which is a 200 lb spring to split hairs) to be a little softer than the 7 leaf but no where near approaching the softness of the suspension in those grocery-getters. It certainly does not glide over bumps. In my opinion, based on my experience with the spring, it's a good fit for a street driven car that you still want to have a bit of fun with. Obviously, if you want to put it on the track, it's not the right tool for the job.

Either way, my goal is not to pollute the OPs thread with you and I trying to prove who's right. I've put my person experience with a product out there for him to consider and do with what he pleases.

Julius Rosenthal

I guess as OP I should update on my situation, I chose not to interject until now simply because I was enjoying the conversation.

After a brief back and forth with vansteel, I now know that a 330+ spring will not play nice with the shocks I have right now. I'm dying to upgrade to bilstein sports and a 360, with front to match, but alas my college student bank account is lacking a little.

I'll either be getting the hyperco ez ride from vansteel or a vbp 300 if i can get my hands on it (I'm now fairly certain that this is what was on the car previously).

​​​​Unfortunately I have no frame of reference for various spring rates like the rest of you, seeing as the only Vette I've ever driven was my own, and I wasn't alive in the 80s. In fact I didn't even understand what spring rates were until a few days ago lol.

I'll update again with what I end up getting and how it works out for me.

OldCarBum

jb78L-82

Good advice here^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know you enjoyed the conversation banter but I chose not to answer based on one comment from my partner that he replaced a gymkhana steel 292lb rear spring with a hyperco 200lbs spring.

One thing that is very important when changing suspension components is that you match and balance the parts that are all ready installed on the car. For example, you would not want to replace a gymkhana 292lbs steel spring with a hyperco 200 lbs spring without changing the front springs, shocks and possibly swaybar components as well. Putting a 200lbs composite spring into a gymkhana suspension car that has 550lbs front coils as well as a 1 1/8 inch front sway bar and 7/16 inch rear sway bar could potentially introduce an unstable/unsafe handling situation under the certain circumstances. Using a 200 lb composite spring should at least be matched to 250-260 fronts springs and different shocks.

Priya

[QUOTE=jb78L-82;15985839
One thing that is very important when changing suspension components is that you match and balance the parts that are all ready installed on the car. For example, you would not want to replace a gymkhana 292lbs steel spring with a hyperco 200 lbs spring without changing the front springs, shocks and possibly swaybar components as well. Putting a 200lbs composite spring into a gymkhana suspension car that has 550lbs front coils as well as a 1 1/8 inch front sway bar and 7/16 inch rear sway bar could potentially introduce an unstable/unsafe handling situation under the certain circumstances. Using a 200 lb composite spring should at least be matched to 250-260 fronts springs and different shocks.[/QUOTE]

So, if one had a Gymkhnana suspension and bought the Hyperco Easy Ride 200 lb rear spring what would you recommend be done with the Gymkhana sway bars front and rear?

jb78L-82

The honest answer Priya is I am not sure.

The gymkhana sway bars, front 1 1/8 inch and rear 7/16 inch, were designed by GM for this car to be used with 550 front springs and 292lbs rear steel spring. The base suspension cars had 250-260 lbs front springs and a 172lbs rear composite or 192lbs steel in previous years with a 7/8 inch front bar, and no rear bar. The base cars with this setup will understeer much when pushed. I would assume (I am guessing) that using a 1 1/8 inch front bar in place of that 7/8 inch base car swaybar and 250 front coils would increase the understeer with 250 coils more BUT the 7/16 inch rear bar would counteract some of that additional understeer, so my money would be on that the car would continue to understeer like before, with maybe a tad more push, under hard cornering....Guess....

Under normal driving the car should ride soft and have less lean/sway in normal driving than a base suspension car