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Panel adhesive is meant to glue two flat surfaces tight against each other, not butted edge to edge. The VPA filler is for non-structural repairs, says so right on the can.
And IF you actually took the time and talked with Evercoat on this.....because I HAVE, You would find out that it CAN be used for structural repairs. The reason they wrote that on the can was due to idiots bonding fiberglass ground effect kits to a fender and body on a steel car....and the bond broke.
I use VPA to bond the correct type of panels all the time and it does not fail....and it is structural. I can bond a polyester fiberglass front clip on and it will not fall off.
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
The panel adhesive would work to glue the bonding strip back onto the 2 panels. To do that, you'd need to open the seam of the bonding strip and properly glue it back on with the panel adhesive.
I know I would not...only erring on the side of caution due to this car is an early SMC car. Because....VPA states...it can be used to FILL on SMC....BUT NOT BOND SMC. Knowing that NOT all SMC's are the same.....I would use the SEM stuff and KNOW I am not going to fear a problem.
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
Otherwise, glass over the seam which basically removes it. I wouldn't use panel adhesive as a seam filler from the front on those panels where the bonding strip is broken between them. You're saying the 2 sides of that bad seam can move independent of each other, so you know the bonding strip is broken off in that area.
YES...if the panels are free to move from the bonding strip... the panels need to be bonded back to the bonding strip.
If a person wants to fiberglass over the seam....have at it. Once the panels bonded back to the bonding strip...how they choose to fill in the seam and get the contour of the body is up to them.
Watching videos and doing it are two totally separate things....and from many of the videos I see...and that are sent to me to review....SO MANY key critical steps are left out that it is no wonder why it is often times said....not to believe everything you see on the internet. Thew main thing I try to tell people is to TEST it out before you do it on the car to make sure you are doing it right. Some take that advice....while others do not and pay the price.
If a layer of glass is added on top of the seam, it will strengthen the seam. It will also change the shape of the body. You would then have to add filler and re-shape the whole seam for a width of 4 to 6 inches. Then what happens when you get to the door? You gonna glass the same strip across the door and fill to match the new contours of the quarters and fenders?
Vette Panel ADHESIVE/Filler. It is an ADHESIVE and is written on the can.
Those people who have never used it may not know its capabilities...may not know how to use it. This stuff is NOT a filler like a regular type body filler like RAGE GOLD which not even close. But it can fill areas like what is being discussed in THIS thread.
Those that choose to laminate can do as they wish.
If a layer of glass is added on top of the seam, it will strengthen the seam. It will also change the shape of the body. You would then have to add filler and re-shape the whole seam for a width of 4 to 6 inches. Then what happens when you get to the door? You gonna glass the same strip across the door and fill to match the new contours of the quarters and fenders?
That's why you taper back the existing material 3 to 4 inches on both sides of the seam. Done right, the new glass fills in what you've ground out and builds to the same level as the original material.
I know I would not...only erring on the side of caution due to this car is an early SMC car. Because....VPA states...it can be used to FILL on SMC....BUT NOT BOND SMC. Knowing that NOT all SMC's are the same.....I would use the SEM stuff and KNOW I am not going to fear a problem.
Originally Posted by DUB
Vette Panel ADHESIVE/Filler. It is an ADHESIVE and is written on the can.
Those people who have never used it may not know its capabilities...may not know how to use it. This stuff is NOT a filler like a regular type body filler like RAGE GOLD which not even close. But it can fill areas like what is being discussed in THIS thread.
IN THIS thread, the OP has a car where the bonding strip is broken which means the 2 sides need to either be bonded back together or be laminated together. So, where do you stand? Use VPA to bond it back together or not?
IN THIS thread, the OP has a car where the bonding strip is broken which means the 2 sides need to either be bonded back together or be laminated together. So, where do you stand? Use VPA to bond it back together or not?
YES..I have already written it out on how I would do it .....so do I need to write it again??? read my posts and post #20.
I will say that if people feel that laminating over the areas where the panels are separated from the bonding strip....they will have a major problem ....if they do not laminate it correctly due to the bonding strip is NOT backing up the panels.
NOW....handlaid fiberglass front clips do not have bonding strips on them and they are just fine....may be a comment someone may make. And YES.....they are correct. So...with that train of thought....bonding the bonding strip to the panels does not need to be done IF they prep and laminate it up correctly. But they are putting A LOT of trust in there repair there.....when bonding it withe the appropriate adhesive will provide the support to that area. so it can be filled in once it is bonded.
I will type this....VPA CAN be used to BOND and FILL polyester fiberglass body panels. VPA can ONLY fill in on SMC panels and it CANNOT bond SMC panels. VPA is NOT the appropriate adhesive to use to bond two pieces of metal together either....BUT iot can be used to do bodywork on a metal car.
So... a split or torn SMC panel is not a repair where I would use VPA to repair the split or crack. I would get the damaged repaired THEN I would FILL on it with the VPA to get the shape of the panel correct.
The early SMC body panels are not the same as current SMC body panels....and I do not care to take the chance in using VPA to bond these early types of SMC ....all the way up to 1982.....when delaminations in the bonding seams are like what is seen on this car in this thread....or ANY Corvette that has similar damage.
OK...IF you are JUST re-working the seams and filling them in. Using VPA is going to do just fine and NO NEED to laminate it. Not like I have been doing this for decades and ONLY trying to tell you what I know that works. But go ahead and laminate if if you want to. No need to do it the way I do it.
All I know is that from the photos of your car....if it were in my shop. I would prep and clean out the separated panels seam areas...inject in the SEM 39747 (because I keep it on hand). Any of the oozing SEM product that comes out on the outer area gets ground back to where I can only see the thin seam of it. ThenI would apply the VPA.
NOW.....due to ONLY seeing what you have allowed us to see in your photos. I have run across some scenarios where I have needed to laminate in some West Systems epoxy resin and then finish out the area.....but those areas are usually on the flanges of the panels where the bumper makes contact.
DUB
This is pretty much what I was looking for. The picture of the small split is the only part of the seams that are bad it seems. I have already talked to their support on the phone and the guy was able to answer every question I had.
The rest of the imperfections I have ground down so far, I have seen no cracks in the panel to the bonding strip thankfully. From what I understand the best approach to those are to sand into the old filler and put VPA over top. With my back bad seam, I will mix up some of the G/Flex 655 epoxy and inject it into the crack and let that set for a day then grind any excess out and fill with VPA. It says cure time is 10 hours so a full 24 should be plenty of time.
Hopefully I am on the right track now, I thank you and everyone else for the responses so far.
To each their own, but I'd be very concerned about the level of bonding between the weather exposed bonding strip and panel by just injecting adhesive into the seam from the front. You should do something to prep the two surfaces first.
To each their own, but I'd be very concerned about the level of bonding between the weather exposed bonding strip and panel by just injecting adhesive into the seam from the front. You should do something to prep the two surfaces first.
What would be the best route? Pull the strip off and epoxy it back on? Just not sure how hard it will be to get it off in one piece, I figured since most of it is still bonded, injecting some behind just that part and clamping it would work.
What would be the best route? Pull the strip off and epoxy it back on? Just not sure how hard it will be to get it off in one piece, I figured since most of it is still bonded, injecting some behind just that part and clamping it would work.
Can you open the seam enough to clean it and sand the surfaces?
I run into this SAME type of issue and I do much like what you have thought of repairing it by injecting or using a spreader to press the adhesive into the open seam area to fill it in.
I do agree that whatever method you can find to allow you to try to separate the panels enough so you can take a drill and small drill bit and route out some of the old adhesive and get it kind of scuffed up is good enough. A Dremel tool works good in this area also
IF you can separate the panels enough and take a piece of 36 or 80 grit sandpaper and slide it between the spread apart panel and drag it back and forth to scuff that area...that would work also. Blow this scuffed area well with air.
The 'trick' here is knowing when you can get away with NOT having to do a little bit more panel separation. Sometimes I actually will heat up the area and get it to come apart a bit more so I have a bit more flexibility in the panels so when I spread them apart....I KNOW I can get in that area and prep it so I KNOW my adhesive is going onto a ROUGH prepped surface. Sometimes wasting time trying to prep a tight seam that does not have movement in it is just not worth it. Knowing that I have to cover it with some VPA....trying to keep the repair to the minimum is often times more of a hassle.
Thank you for the tips, I plan to pull the rear bumper today or tomorrow to hopefully have a better look at what's going on behind the panel. Just placed an order for some VPA so that should be coming in soon.
When prying on it with a screwdriver, it barely moves up. I pried on the bonding strip some and it barely moved, maybe a millimeter or 2 out at the top and was solid at the bottom.
03-02-2019, 06:57 PM
