I'm going to try to degree my cam today or tomorrow (I think I'm missing some stuff I need...) and I've watched a NUMBER of videos but they all seem to imply quite a bit of knowledge and tools so I want to confirm a few things.

What I have:
I have borrowed SuperBuickGuy's Summit Racing Degree wheel (11") w 2 of the washers and a coat hanger-style pointer. I have a crank socket for turning over the engine. I have a piston stop (through the spark plug style) and I have the head installed over cylinder #1.I also have my hydraulic roller lifters installed in lifter bores for Cylinder #1. -I do NOT have a dial indicator at all.
I do not have a full degree wheel "KIT"; just the degree wheel, washer, pointer, and piston stop.

My understanding is that there's two major procedures to be done here:
1. Find TDC and lock wheel @ TDC mark
2. Degree the cam (many various methods)


Early Questions:

• What size / thread bolt goes in the end of the crank to hold the wheel on? (I'm assuming it needs to be pretty short if it's going to hold the wheel in place?
• How the heck do I turn the motor over with the degree wheel over the end of the crank? (my crank socket won't work with the degree wheel installed...)
• It doesn't actually matter where the pointer goes or where it points as it's all "relative", correct? (Don't touch the wheel but clearly point to it; beyond that it doesn't matter.)

Find TDC and lock wheel @ TDC:

1. Install degree wheel (assumption: rotation does not matter) and put special comp locking nut over end of the crank (I don't have one of these but saw it in the comp cams video... Would like to think there's another way to rotate the crank..
2. Install pointer -don't touch wheel- doesn't really matter where it goes
3. Make sure the piston is down in the bore and use the piston stop (doesn't matter how much it's screwed in; just enough to stop the piston from getting all the way to TDC)
4. Rotate engine clockwise until it hits piston stop- note # on the degree wheel
5. Rotate engine counterclockwise until it hits piston stop- note # on the degree wheel
6. Average 2 Numbers ->this is your TDC location
7. Remove piston stop
8. Rotate crank to TDC # obtained in step 6 above
9. Unlock the wheel so it can move freely without the crank and reposition it so that "TDC" on the degree wheel now points at the pointer (the crank is currently "parked" at TDC)- lock the wheel back down
10. Proceed to actually degreeing the cam

"Poor-Man's Cam Degreeing Procedure" (Validate intake and exhaust centerlines, LSA, and rough seat-to-seat durations only: no dial indicator required)
Note: This SHI7 I totally made up. I'm hoping that I can just "eyeball" the intake starting to open and not have to deal with buying a dial indicator and a magnetic base and just move on to finishing getting the engine done.

1. Crank until the intake valve begins to open then rotate the crank backwards a few degrees
2. BEGIN Intake:: Slowly rotate the crank clockwise until the intake pushrod / valve start to move- note degree on degree wheel (intake open event)
3. Keep rotating until intake valve closes -note degree on degree wheel (intake close event) -do #2 and #3 again to validate I get the same results
4. BEGIN Exhaust: Slowly rotate the crank clockwise until the exhaust pushrod / valve start to move- note degree on degree wheel (exhaust open event)
5. Keep rotating until exhaust valve closes- note degree on degree wheel (exhaust close event) -do #4 and #5 again to validate I get the same results
6. Math: Calculate Intake and Exhaust Durations: Subtract Open events' postions from close events positions to end up with seat-to-seat durations for intake and exhaust lobes (compare to cam card)
7. Math: Calculate Intake and Exhaust Centerlines: Average intake open and close degree to obtain Intake Centerline; Average exhaust open and close degree to obtain Exhaust Centerline (Compare to cam card)
8. Math: Calculate Cam LSA: (Degrees Distance between Intake and Exhaust centerlines == LSA (Compare to CamCard)
9. Have beer, install timing chain cover, harmonic balancer, timing pointer, water pump and just in general get on with my life.

Adam

 

If there's just absolutely no way to do this even "Close Enough" without a dial indicator, then someone smack me digitally upside the head and I'll just jump into the car and go to Harbor Freight in an hour or so, but I need to know exactly what to get so I don't make 15 trips.

It doesn't seem like JUST a dial indicator does anything, then you need a magnetic adjustable base, etc... and it also doesn't seem like even the degree wheel, washers, and pointer I have are going to work I'm going to need something else to be able to use the wheel AND Turn the crank and the whole set of tools required and the timeline is spiraling out of control and I'm getting so dang close to just leave it "dot-to-dot" and not degreeing it at all.

-I'm trying to do SOME basic cam validation and move on.


Adam

 

Go get a dial indicator and be done with it. You need a way to measure how much cam lift you have to compare to cam card. You will need to find a long enough extension to reach the lifter edge. Trying to read off the lifter plunger will not work correctly with a hyd lifter. A solid lifter will work (either roller or flat depending on what you have).

Just use the harmonic balancer bolt to hold degree wheel. You can use it to turn motor also. You can do all of this with head off if it makes it easier to measure lift. I've got a small offset wrench I bolt across the top of the bore that sticks down into the bore, The piston will hit it before TDC...makes a nice simple piston stop. Or you can use the one you have with head on.

The only way you'll be able to determine anything with eyeball is to look at lifters at TDC overlap...and see if the intake is higher than the exhaust.
But it won't tell you how much.

Get a dial indicator...

I think you've got the concept for finding TDC. You want to determine what the split is and move the wheel to account for it..but then you must double check it and ensure that you get the same measurement on either side of TDC when it hits the stop. THEN you can be assured it will be on TDC when you line up the pointer with TDC on the wheel after removing stop. If it's only off a few degrees.....you can move/bemd the coat hanger pointer to adjust rather than moving the wheel. Make sure to not touch the pointer after it's set.


JIM

 

If you don't want to actually degree the cam and know where it's at...just line up the dots on the gears and trust all the MFG's did their job correctly. Don't even bother with the rest.

One more thing....good idea to ensure the timing mark on the balancer is actually at TDC also. After installing it...put degree wheel back on and go through the process with the piston stop again and then put it to TDC and see where mark is. If you have a degreed balancer this is easier.

JIM

 

Um, yep. But if you want the experience to dial in the cam, get your butt over to HF.

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/clampi...tor-63656.html

pros use a MUCH larger wheel ... 18" - 24" ...pricey ... turning the motor over using the wheel itself

 

First time I degreed a motor, it came out right where I expected. Sorry, your poor man's degreeing is just not up the results you wil get with an indicator and stand. https://m.harborfreight.com/clamping...tor-63656.html. there are 3 harbor freights in the Seattle area. And small 3/4 socket fits hole in the center.

 

Thanks guys I needed the kick in the pants. Back from Harbor Freight.

CompCams degree kit ordered from Amazon... only one weekend delayed, I guess...


Adam

 

I never trust the manufactures and there is a good chance you will find at least a half degree or more variance from the array of manufacturers involved with the cam and timing chain sprockets because they are mass produced. You will leave horsepower on the table if you don't know where it is and correct. I like to advance for more low end torque.

 

As much work and research as you've put into this project...you will be glad you did...and you've invested in knowledge/skills and tools. Always a good path!

Go by cam card...many cams are ground advanced to start with. Not sure if you have a cam with symmetrical or asymmetrical lobes...but you'll want to study on that a little. Best is to guarantee the opening and closing points are at the correct spot vs just ICL.


Good luck!

JIM

 

Nothing wrong with double checking...being as you have a mild cam cam from Mike Jones I bet its fine.

but...may as well lol
These are nice to have (may not be the pn just got an image)


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...iABEgILMfD_BwE

 

When you put in the work to learn degreeing and double check your setup, A. You now know what you have and that it is what you paid for. B, you feel like you built it, not just bought it.

 

Adam,
I would loan you my stuff but the time factor plus the cost of the postage would be close to the cost of the indicator and the magnetic mount from Harbor Freight that you could just go pick up locally so..... $12.99 plus $16.99 is all you need.

I just can't see you NOT doing this. You have so much into this already.

Use the .050" tappet lift valve timing numbers. Lobe centerline method is a crap shoot with aftermarket cams and definitely NOT to be used on factory cams.

Let me know if you need anything.

-Mark.

 

OP Adam

Recall you have cast alum timing cover.
Trust you also got a good quality adjustable timing pointer; sized for your balancer-damper's diameter.
Perhaps you've already dry-fit the two? Some of the billet pointers do Not fit some of the cast alum TC covers.

Rather than pound the damper on snout, it's better to press the damper on with a tool.
Many local parts stores lend/rent the damper install tool.

So ...

After you've verified the damper's Reference-Line = true TDC ...
scribe a permanent line from outer ring's Reference-Line ... across damper's face and thru center of hub ...
routinely checking the two remain aligned verifies damper's outer ring hasn't slipped ...
thus verifying your TDC reference mark remains accurate.

 

I use a very large adjustable wrench against the crank key (I've done multiple SBC's and BBC this way, never had any damage to snout or key). The wrench is behind the degree wheel so once you lock degree down against crank at TDC you shouldn't need to worry about the wheel moving.

It's bit of a dance moving the wrench around but totally doable. As others said you need the indicator, and it's nice for TDC check too.

Oh, use the degree method your Cam Mfg. recommends, I fought with my Straub Cam til I followed their instructions (0.050 point intake method) then it went easy and matched his specs.

 

I used the intake centerline method as I had the instructions for it. Used same method on the exhaust.

piston stop through spark plug hole; fancy CompCams crank adapter -that things gold!

cam card says: 107 intake centerline, 113 exhaust centerline.

I measured 108 intake; 112 exhaust

Adam

 

I tried to measure max lift both over the top of the pushrod for the lifter side AND on the top of the valve retainers themselves- but the valve doesn’t really work with tiny beehive retainers and GIANT comp ultra pro magnums over them (have to go at an angle).

I ended up measuring almost exactly 0.400” at the lifter/ pushrod (supposed to be 0.375) and 0.358” at the exhaust - supposed to be 0.360” so a good result there. When I measured at the retainers I got 0.520” on the intake (supposed to be 0.600”) for the exhaust I got 0.504” and supposed to be 0.576”.


I noted the point on the degree wheel where the intake and exhaust valves just started to open but they’re kinda nonsensical compared to the cam card: 52.5 deg btdc intake open; 95 degrees btdc exhaust open.

I also wrote down what the degree wheel said at max lift on the intake and exhaust thinking this would be the intake / exhaust centerline too: got 109 on intake (close); on the exhaust this showed 110.



Ill

 

What did I learn?

Compcams SBC degree kit is trash. The holder is terrible; Harborfreight way better (dial indicators are identical; definitely made in the same place). The wheel is solid but TINY; used SuperBuickGuys Summit wheel instead. -Going back to Amazon.

Get a giant wheel or don’t bother.


Unless you really know what you’re doing I’m not sure degreeing your cam is that useful of your time.


If you use a big long pry bar on the crank you CAN BEND a piston stop (I bent mine and then had to use the one in the CompKit to finish.)


Adam

 

if max at lifter supposed to be .375 & you got .400 ... that's way off ... and in wrong direction ... might expect some sine error but that ALWAYS results in lower number than true. Result not acceptable.

on the other hand, .358 versus true .360 is acceptable.

 

OP Adam

download this FREE long pdf technical manual titled Machinery's Handbook 26th edition

http://theminimachineshop.com/Techni...20Handbook.pdf

standard technical reference for mech engineers, draftsmen etc for over 100 years ... great section on dimensioning & measuring (aka Metrology