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Starting engine on the frame - How? What do I need?

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Old May 20, 2019 | 10:21 AM
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Default Starting engine on the frame - How? What do I need?

Sorry in advance, I know this is pretty involved.

Now that I am finally putting things together on my car instead of taking them apart, it is nearing the time when I will want to take the new 383 that I have built, drop it in the frame, and fire it up to check for leaks and make sure that everything is working as it should.

The problem is that I have very little idea of how to do that.

My intention is to have the fuel tank and lines in place on the frame so I will not need to worry about fuel delivery. The exhaust will also be in place so I should be able to listen for any unexpected noises.

Here are the questions:

For cooling do I install the radiator, support, electric fans and run the full system? Can I drop the body back on later without having to take it all apart again? Is there an easier way to handle cooling if not? Do I just manually switch the fans on when needed or wire in the temp sensor?

The engine is internally balanced. Should I/do I need to install the flywheel? Only asking to make it easier to check for RMS leaks.

For electrical I know that I need a battery, a starter motor, and a hot wire to the ignition coil. If I am running a full cooling system I will also need to provide power to the fans. I am a little fuzzy on the wiring part. Obviously battery hot to starter, ground to frame. Do I switch hot to the starter terminal? I know some people just use a screwdriver to jump the terminals...I have seen welded screwdrivers from that but maybe I am just being paranoid? Then just run a standard ~14ga wire to the hot terminal on the coil?

I plan on running a cheapo manual oil pressure gauge to make sure that I have pressure and will probably do the same for water temp.

I will have a fire extinguisher (or three) nearby.

So...other than the questions above, what am I missing?

Sorry for the length and thanks in advance for any input =)

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Old May 20, 2019 | 10:35 AM
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Without a flywheel, you have to crank it old school...plus, you really want a trans on there so it isnt leaning back on mounts. outside? Fill engine with garden hose adapted into lower radiator hose. Add extension to upper hose so outlet water is not all over engine. Don need no steenking cooling system... unless you want it up to temp and pressurized. Then rad and fans needed. Just hot wire fans.

Last edited by derekderek; May 20, 2019 at 10:37 AM.
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Old May 20, 2019 | 11:44 AM
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What Derek said-- I've ran a bunch of engines over the years with a garden hose stuffed into somewhere- I've even connected the hose to a heater hose port- as long as water is circulating thru the engine, it really doesn't care where it's from. You will need the flywheel for sure. Trying to start a new engine with a hand crank is not something I'd deal with. They made electricity for a reason(LOL).. I have a remote start button that I use to engage the starter- battery cables to the starter and ground, wire to the hot side of the coil, remote button on the inner S terminal in the solenoid and power on the other lead. Away you go.
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Old May 20, 2019 | 12:21 PM
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Wow, I am a complete idiot. Of course I will need the flywheel :-p. Classic case of just not thinking it through, thank you for setting me straight.

I kind of like the idea of a pressurized cooling system, mostly to check for leaks but maybe I am overthinking that?

I like the idea of a starter button, I will find something that will work for that. Thanks again!
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Old May 20, 2019 | 12:32 PM
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Two additional items:

First, make sure there is a way to quickly disconnect or interrupt the hot lead to the coil. It’s awfully nice to be able to turn off the engine if something unexpected happens.

Second, are you planning on breaking in your cam? If so,you’ll need a little more in the way of cooling and fans.
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Old May 20, 2019 | 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CA-Legal-Vette
Two additional items:

First, make sure there is a way to quickly disconnect or interrupt the hot lead to the coil. It’s awfully nice to be able to turn off the engine if something unexpected happens.

Second, are you planning on breaking in your cam? If so,you’ll need a little more in the way of cooling and fans.
The cam is roller so it was my understanding that really the main break in is happening for the rings, is that right? In any case, I was intending on just checking for leaks. I will not have the rear diff in the car so I cannot put the engine under a load.
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Old May 20, 2019 | 11:05 PM
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I'm planning on starting my newly rebuilt engine before I place the body back on and I have the same questions, thanks for posting!! Anyways, I plan on making a temporary wooden radiator frame mount and securing it to the frame just to start the engine. I have a roller cam so I don't need much break-in, just enough to seat the rings. Right now the distributor is at the speed shop to be curved and then I can place it in. Here is where I'm at right now:

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Old May 20, 2019 | 11:15 PM
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You know the actual rad support will fit and hold the radiator better than any wooden lash-up...
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Old May 21, 2019 | 01:41 AM
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Hey Michael,
With your skills why not build an engine test stand?
You can use it for this and any future build.
Pretty straightforward build with some box steel.
I picked up some 4x4 box tubing, casters, headers, radiator off a Camaro, extra bellhousing for sbc to bolt to.
Slap a battery, gas can, some basic gauges, simple ignition switch and pretty much good to go.
Google or Youtube and you will see several.
Great way to test an engine just built and to break it in.
Don't ever use new chrome headers to break in an engine. Use an old set.
I have some drawings in my files somewhere.
Dennis
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Old May 21, 2019 | 02:12 AM
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Default single pic of stand idea

check this out
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Old May 21, 2019 | 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by derekderek
You know the actual rad support will fit and hold the radiator better than any wooden lash-up...
The body is on a dolly and the rad support is holding the front end together. I don't want to take that apart and chance a mishap. I can easily construct a frame which I'm more comfortable with.
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Old May 21, 2019 | 10:18 AM
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All these are fantastic ideas!

Thanks for the suggestion of a stand Dennis! I saw a few of these online and opted to just use the frame as my test platform simply because it is already there and it is where the engine is going to end up anyway. Once this project is done (hahahaha) if I decide to find another project car then I will accept that I may be doing this for a while and build a frame =). I just did not want to go through the effort if it is something that I will only use once. My garage space is already at a premium due to the blast cabinet, hoists, and powder coating equipment that already resides there.
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Old May 21, 2019 | 12:01 PM
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I built up a little dashboard using the original instruments. I wanted the wiring, etc as correct as possible so I wouldn't have to troubleshoot on my back under the dash wondering what the heck is wrong.






Last edited by ignatz; May 21, 2019 at 12:05 PM.
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Old May 21, 2019 | 03:35 PM
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Back in the day, we would run our drag boat motors by just dropping a garden hose in a 5 gallon bucket and turning on the water enough to keep the bucket full..
You can do the same thing on your Corvette frame by running a cheap flex radiator hose from the water pump into the bucket and another flex radiator hose from the thermostat housing to the ground.
If the flex radiator hoses aren't long enough you can clamp 2 or more together using PVC pipe fittings.
You will need to remove the thermostat.
The water will get steaming warm as it passes through the engine and if anything is leaking you will still see it leak.
Take a piece of flat aluminum stock that's long enough to clamp across the frame rails using a couple of clamps you can buy at any hardware store.
Mount any gauges onto the flat stock and a single throw pull switch for 12vdc to supply power to the ignition and starter when pulled out and will shut everything down when pushed back in.
Mount a momentary push button switch to actuate the starter.
You will need to mount the alternator just to have the belt turn the water pump, but we could water ski a whole day on a fresh battery without an alternator so wiring to the alternator is unnecessary.
You don't need a tach, and if you wanted, you could mount your oil pressure gauge at the engine and monitor the oil pressure from there.
Done.

Last edited by OldCarBum; May 21, 2019 at 03:38 PM.
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Old May 22, 2019 | 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ignatz
I built up a little dashboard using the original instruments. I wanted the wiring, etc as correct as possible so I wouldn't have to troubleshoot on my back under the dash wondering what the heck is wrong.





That looks quite fancy and while I like the idea of using the original wiring harness, mine needs a fair bit of work before it is usable and I think I would like to try to fire this up before I spend my time on the harness.

Originally Posted by OldCarBum
Back in the day, we would run our drag boat motors by just dropping a garden hose in a 5 gallon bucket and turning on the water enough to keep the bucket full..
You can do the same thing on your Corvette frame by running a cheap flex radiator hose from the water pump into the bucket and another flex radiator hose from the thermostat housing to the ground.
If the flex radiator hoses aren't long enough you can clamp 2 or more together using PVC pipe fittings.
You will need to remove the thermostat.
The water will get steaming warm as it passes through the engine and if anything is leaking you will still see it leak.
Take a piece of flat aluminum stock that's long enough to clamp across the frame rails using a couple of clamps you can buy at any hardware store.
Mount any gauges onto the flat stock and a single throw pull switch for 12vdc to supply power to the ignition and starter when pulled out and will shut everything down when pushed back in.
Mount a momentary push button switch to actuate the starter.
You will need to mount the alternator just to have the belt turn the water pump, but we could water ski a whole day on a fresh battery without an alternator so wiring to the alternator is unnecessary.
You don't need a tach, and if you wanted, you could mount your oil pressure gauge at the engine and monitor the oil pressure from there.
Done.
Good stuff and thank you very much for the detailed response. I will toss together something to hold the gauges and switches and run from there.
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Old May 22, 2019 | 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ignatz
I built up a little dashboard using the original instruments. I wanted the wiring, etc as correct as possible so I wouldn't have to troubleshoot on my back under the dash wondering what the heck is wrong.





Always inspired by how other folks solve a problem with what they have available and will fit.
One of the great things about DIY cars.
Thanks
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Old May 22, 2019 | 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ignatz
I built up a little dashboard using the original instruments. I wanted the wiring, etc as correct as possible so I wouldn't have to troubleshoot on my back under the dash wondering what the heck is wrong.





Very impressive
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Old May 22, 2019 | 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PainfullySlow
That looks quite fancy and while I like the idea of using the original wiring harness, mine needs a fair bit of work before it is usable and I think I would like to try to fire this up before I spend my time on the harness.



Good stuff and thank you very much for the detailed response. I will toss together something to hold the gauges and switches and run from there.
The only other thing I would add, as stated above, bolt the trans up to the block and bolt the trans to the cross member for support.
AND upload the video of your first start up!!!
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Old May 22, 2019 | 05:43 PM
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If it's fuel injected you'll need an 02 sensor on the exhaust and maf/map sensor if it's not built-in.
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Old May 22, 2019 | 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OldCarBum
The only other thing I would add, as stated above, bolt the trans up to the block and bolt the trans to the cross member for support.
AND upload the video of your first start up!!!
Will do for sure. I have to make sure that the trans fits the modified crossmember anyway which will happen well before I fire up anything. I will be sure to post up a video!

Originally Posted by Black04Vert
If it's fuel injected you'll need an 02 sensor on the exhaust and maf/map sensor if it's not built-in.
Good call, but no mine is still carburated =)
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