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One more very WAG ... just for the heck of it ... an example of how just 'bout anything is possible.
What if ... what if your "HEI wire retainer" somehow was replaced by someone and they got it wrong ... what if they used one from mid-70's Cadillac V8?? ... looks & fits like any other ... except those have a Very different firing order.
Correct, HEI dizzy. The #1 wire is where it's suppose to be based on the wire retainer that goes on top the cap. It has the wire numbers molded in.
That retainer is for a dissy set at the factory, with the rotor at the factory setting.
The only way for that to be correct is if you mark the base of the Dissy and have the engine at TDC, then keep dropping the dissy in until the rotor points at the mark you made, otherwise the rotor can be off 1 or 2 plug wires.
Unless you verify the timing you will be banging your head until your ears bleed.
The dissy does not care where the #1 plug wire is as long as you start putting the wires on in the correct order starting with where the dissy is pointing to #1 when the engine is at TDC. With the #1 cylinder valves closed.
Then follow the books firing order and put the wires on one by one, verifying the cylinder # as you go.
I "assume" they are set right. 1/2 turn after zero lash.
Is this before or after break-in? If before, the lifters should have "pumped up" and now they are too tight and the valves are not seating correctly. You should check again. Also, no, the engine won't run if the dizzy is out 180*.
Is this before or after break-in? If before, the lifters should have "pumped up" and now they are too tight and the valves are not seating correctly. You should check again. Also, no, the engine won't run if the dizzy is out 180*.
Compression test was before break in.
I went back to square one as some have suggested. Pulled out #1 plug, stuck my finger in the hole and bumped the starter until I knew I was on compression stroke. When it got to TDC on the dampener, the rotor was pointing at #8 position. Don't know how that happened!! I also pulled the rocker cover after this photo to confirm the 2 rockers were in the closed position. I guess while I have the rocker cover off, I'll recheck all the lash. Will get things back to where they should be in the next couple days and we'll see if it runs better. I will report back.
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
The photo you show above (post #7) of the timing chain and gears shows that the engine is in the #6 firing position - it is not in the #1 cylinder firing position. If you dropped the distributor into the block with the cam positioned as shown in that photo, you are 180 out. In order to be on the #1 TDC firing position, both dots need to be pointed straight up - not together at 12:00 and 6:00 as you have them.
Drop me en e-mail for my HEI installation paper for correct position and installation of the HEI distributor.
So, car starts well. Doesn't buck like it is too advanced yet timing light sez it is 50 degrees advanced? Get another timing light...
I have another one, I'll try it. I just bought it, a big buck digital piece.
But I still think something is not right because the vacuum is so low (13-14")
If the damper is set to 0 * mark, the dissy is pointing to the NEW #1 plug wire spot on the cap, not the ring wire numbers. . That is your number 1 wire location.
If you want a different #1 plug wire spot on the cap , pull the dissy and turn it counter clockwise 1 or 2 wire spots and drop it back in. (you may have to turn the oil pump with a long screw driver to get the dissy to drop in to the pump slot)
Back in the day I marked the dissy base for factory #1 wire and dropped it in to align with my #1 mark.
Today, since I don't care where #1 wire is I drop in the dissy and get it close to pointing to the #1 spark plug and just wire the cap starting to where the dissy is pointing to the new #1 on the cap. I don't care about the ring #.
Last edited by BLUE1972; May 28, 2019 at 12:46 PM.
Eyeball tdc mark. Pull left valve cover. Bump motor until #1 exhaust is just finishing closing and #1 intake is just opening. So if you rock balancer back-forth the 2 valves are just moving. At that point engine is within a couple degrees of tdc. Is timing mark saying 0 at that point? It is supposed to be.
OK, got Lars papers and installed the dizzy exactly like he says. Cap and vacuum advance can positioned just like he shows in the picture. Also reset the rocker arms. Started it up....same thing! Way off the TDC mark to get it to run. It seems to run OK as before, but something is still not right. Also tried a different timing light with same results. In blipping the throttle, the timing didn't seem to change (no vacuum advance hooked up). So I'm thinking the mechanical advance is stuck. Pulled it back apart and everything is free. I rebuilt this dizzy when I did the motor and I just compared the before and after photos. It looks like the replacement weights and center pivot are different. What do you guys think?
It looks like the distributor was rebuilt, but perhaps not recurved. Keep reading Lars' papers.
To get my dist to be "all-in" mechanically at 3000 rpm, I used 1 weak and 1 medium spring from a kit, and I used the stock weights (ZZ4 take off dist). It looks like you have the new, and perhaps lighter, weights from the kit, along with the heaviest springs. You might see advance at redline, but not at low RPM.
Read post 30. Your timing mark could be way off. This will get you within 3 degrees of tdc. REAL TDC. If this shows timing mark is off, you need a new balancer.
OK, got Lars papers and installed the dizzy exactly like he says. Cap and vacuum advance can positioned just like he shows in the picture. Also reset the rocker arms. Started it up....same thing! Way off the TDC mark to get it to run. It seems to run OK as before, but something is still not right.
When following Lars' instructions did you have to lift the distributor out and rotate the rotor 180? You state it has the original dampner. What about the cover, was it replaced? Over the years there were 3 different TDC positions on the cover.
When following Lars' instructions did you have to lift the distributor out and rotate the rotor 180? You state it has the original dampner. What about the cover, was it replaced? Over the years there were 3 different TDC positions on the cover.
No, I did not have to rotate the dizzy 180*. I went through his procedure to find TDC and it lined up with the dampener mark. Also pulled the valve covers and watched the rockers. Going to see if I can borrow a friends dizzy and swap it out.
If your spark plugs are firing, I really don't think the problem is in the distributor. If the timing is off, turning the distributor should bring it in. If it still doesn't run right then the problem is somewhere else. As mentioned before, find true TDC with the #1 piston and see if the balancer lines up. Then go from there.
Regarding the distributor, obviously the weights and center plate were changed. The question I have, is that center plate installed upside down? I've only worked with factory components but it seems like the offset of the center plate is opposite that of the factory piece.
Edit: center plate appears to be installed correctly.
Regarding the timing mark, I'd either check the timing mark with a piston stop or pull the crank pulley and see if the timing mark has slipped, there should be an index mark on the balancer hub that lines up with the timing mark.
Last edited by 69autoXr; May 30, 2019 at 11:40 AM.
Duke
seems you borrowed another timing light and verified timing light is Not a culprit.
Suggest you buy, beg or make a cheap spark plug-hole piston stop TDC locator.
gently roll motor clockwise 'till it stops; make an "A" mark on damper where tab indicates "ZERO"
repeat but counter-clockwise; mark damper "B"
Damper's factory groove-mark should be at virtual middle of shortest distance between A & B ... if it IS, damper's golden ... But ...
... if Not, damper's screwed or tab's in wrong location or both.
FWIW ... you probably Know, but if not ...
... for each one Full-turn the crank makes, the Cam makes a Half-turn AND the Dist makes a Half-turn.
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