Dealing with Advice Seekers
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Le Mans Master
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Dealing with Advice Seekers
FAST LANE Animal Jim Feurer | Contributor: Engine Builder Magazine 2020
Dealing with Advice Seekers (aka Take Heed, Ye Who Seek)
I read a great column in my current Drag
Illustrated magazine by Will Hanna called
the “Advice Buffet.” The theme of the article
is how some racers and hot rodders seek
advice from several sources. In most cases,
the many sources will differ cost and effort
to the seeker. The seeker will seek until he or
she hears what they want, which is usually the
cheapest and easiest answer, but most likely
not the best. As racers and engine builders
we have all been an entrée of – as Will Hanna
called it – “the Advice Buffet”
I have dealt with info seekers for over 50
years. Some were legit possible customers,
and some not. Some were just “brain
bleeders” with no intention of spending a
dime with me. Those seekers are the ones
pretending to want work done by me and ask
pertinent questions. Some will con me into a
detailed estimate. Then the seeker uses my
information for themselves.
The con artist is the one I get more of than
the “Buffet Advice Seeker.” I sometimes get
those seekers and con artists on the phone,
some even make a personal appointment to
discuss their project.
One thing I want to make clear – I will
always give advice to anyone who asks and
it may be sound advice the seeker might not
want to hear. I may even throw out some
pertinent basic info and I will never withhold
information that could be a danger to them or
their project.
How many times have we heard the seeker
tell you what so and so said and how much
cheaper they can do it?
Not long ago, I had a prime example. I
turned down a job I would have liked. This
young man raced at RT 66 in Joliet where I
work as an official part time. The young man
wanted to step up a class, but his budget was
several thousand dollars below reality – by my
standards anyway.
One of his main issues was the stock
302 Windsor block he wanted to use. The
horsepower he wanted was more than that
stock 302 two-bolt block would take. I told
him he required an aftermarket SVO or Dart
four-bolt block. Heads were another issue. He
had no parts to volunteer to the effort. Just a
stock 302 block. I pushed my pencil hard and
sharp, the best I could. Even with some pro
bono labor, the price still came out several
thousand more than he could spend.
This went off and on for several days. Then
he told me a friend of his could make him even
more horsepower than required and do it
cheaper. I wished him good luck. I wonder how
many other engine builders he contacted. I
never saw him at 66 again.
I have had many incidents like this during
my five-decade watch. As for my sincere
customers, I will do anything, even disco in the
street, to insure they run well. I will go beyond
the engine info if necessary.
As for the engine or related parts I am
involved in with my customers, I provide a
detailed build sheet with all settings and specs.
My customers get a complete summary of
what was done and a list of all parts used. The
customer gets a folder copy and I keep one on
file. I want my stuff to run well.
As for racers seeking info, I am usually an
open book. Even if they are not my customer,
and perhaps are even racing against me.
Exchanging information with a reliable
peer can be very valuable. The common racer
questions are timing, tire pressure, rpm,
clutch/torque convertor, camshaft, fuel, valve
springs, etc. I also caution them that what
works for me or another, may not work for
them. All race cars and drivers differ. Plus, it
takes a combination of many factors to make
it work.
The funny thing I discovered about giving
advice is there are some who partake in the
“Advice Buffet,” and if the advice fails, it is a
big boo hoo to the giver. If it works, the seeker
claims the idea as their own.
Several times in my many years, I have had
things told to me by those I taught the info to
in the first place! I think some seekers seem
to forget the source and actually believe they
came up with the info.
To sum it up, I guess it is a judgment call for
the buffet provider whether the seeker is for
real or just a brain bleeder. As I said earlier,
for real customers, I will do all things possible
to keep my customers informed. If I don’t have
the answer, I will find it for them. My personal
customer handling policy is what beats out
mail order crate engines. EB
Dealing with Advice Seekers (aka Take Heed, Ye Who Seek)
I read a great column in my current Drag
Illustrated magazine by Will Hanna called
the “Advice Buffet.” The theme of the article
is how some racers and hot rodders seek
advice from several sources. In most cases,
the many sources will differ cost and effort
to the seeker. The seeker will seek until he or
she hears what they want, which is usually the
cheapest and easiest answer, but most likely
not the best. As racers and engine builders
we have all been an entrée of – as Will Hanna
called it – “the Advice Buffet”
I have dealt with info seekers for over 50
years. Some were legit possible customers,
and some not. Some were just “brain
bleeders” with no intention of spending a
dime with me. Those seekers are the ones
pretending to want work done by me and ask
pertinent questions. Some will con me into a
detailed estimate. Then the seeker uses my
information for themselves.
The con artist is the one I get more of than
the “Buffet Advice Seeker.” I sometimes get
those seekers and con artists on the phone,
some even make a personal appointment to
discuss their project.
One thing I want to make clear – I will
always give advice to anyone who asks and
it may be sound advice the seeker might not
want to hear. I may even throw out some
pertinent basic info and I will never withhold
information that could be a danger to them or
their project.
How many times have we heard the seeker
tell you what so and so said and how much
cheaper they can do it?
Not long ago, I had a prime example. I
turned down a job I would have liked. This
young man raced at RT 66 in Joliet where I
work as an official part time. The young man
wanted to step up a class, but his budget was
several thousand dollars below reality – by my
standards anyway.
One of his main issues was the stock
302 Windsor block he wanted to use. The
horsepower he wanted was more than that
stock 302 two-bolt block would take. I told
him he required an aftermarket SVO or Dart
four-bolt block. Heads were another issue. He
had no parts to volunteer to the effort. Just a
stock 302 block. I pushed my pencil hard and
sharp, the best I could. Even with some pro
bono labor, the price still came out several
thousand more than he could spend.
This went off and on for several days. Then
he told me a friend of his could make him even
more horsepower than required and do it
cheaper. I wished him good luck. I wonder how
many other engine builders he contacted. I
never saw him at 66 again.
I have had many incidents like this during
my five-decade watch. As for my sincere
customers, I will do anything, even disco in the
street, to insure they run well. I will go beyond
the engine info if necessary.
As for the engine or related parts I am
involved in with my customers, I provide a
detailed build sheet with all settings and specs.
My customers get a complete summary of
what was done and a list of all parts used. The
customer gets a folder copy and I keep one on
file. I want my stuff to run well.
As for racers seeking info, I am usually an
open book. Even if they are not my customer,
and perhaps are even racing against me.
Exchanging information with a reliable
peer can be very valuable. The common racer
questions are timing, tire pressure, rpm,
clutch/torque convertor, camshaft, fuel, valve
springs, etc. I also caution them that what
works for me or another, may not work for
them. All race cars and drivers differ. Plus, it
takes a combination of many factors to make
it work.
The funny thing I discovered about giving
advice is there are some who partake in the
“Advice Buffet,” and if the advice fails, it is a
big boo hoo to the giver. If it works, the seeker
claims the idea as their own.
Several times in my many years, I have had
things told to me by those I taught the info to
in the first place! I think some seekers seem
to forget the source and actually believe they
came up with the info.
To sum it up, I guess it is a judgment call for
the buffet provider whether the seeker is for
real or just a brain bleeder. As I said earlier,
for real customers, I will do all things possible
to keep my customers informed. If I don’t have
the answer, I will find it for them. My personal
customer handling policy is what beats out
mail order crate engines. EB
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 9,063
Likes: 2,736
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I think the OP copied story makes sense, and I understand it......BUT, when non-experienced people attempt to "seek" out information, the biggest problem is finding an "expert" you can trust. I have been conned by supposed "experts", only to find out later that their "con" has been going on for years......costing lots of people, lots of money with no way to get it back. The particular con artist in Pittsburgh with their business title starting in "Corvette" cost me $3500, and I find out later he cost many others much more. So.....I have a genuine lack of trust now for lots of "experts".
Otherwise, I understand the thread theme, and when an honest "expert" is trying to make a living, giving out information and never getting a monetary reward is hard to do. I tried to deal with a well known "cam" expert with full intentions to give him my money, and all I wanted to know was the basic cam specs,.......which he refused to give me until I committed to buy, even though as soon as I installed it, I would have been able to measure what I asked to know. He lost a sale. And another famous cam expert got my money, because he did give me what I asked for. It goes both ways.
And one last point......many self proclaimed "experts" are legends in their own mind. You can usually tell when they starting talking about all the great things they have done and how many years they have been doing it. People who truly are great typically don't need to include that in every sentence out of their mouth. So, I make up my own mind about people who I trust, and who I send money to.
Otherwise, I understand the thread theme, and when an honest "expert" is trying to make a living, giving out information and never getting a monetary reward is hard to do. I tried to deal with a well known "cam" expert with full intentions to give him my money, and all I wanted to know was the basic cam specs,.......which he refused to give me until I committed to buy, even though as soon as I installed it, I would have been able to measure what I asked to know. He lost a sale. And another famous cam expert got my money, because he did give me what I asked for. It goes both ways.
And one last point......many self proclaimed "experts" are legends in their own mind. You can usually tell when they starting talking about all the great things they have done and how many years they have been doing it. People who truly are great typically don't need to include that in every sentence out of their mouth. So, I make up my own mind about people who I trust, and who I send money to.
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Mar 30, 2020 at 04:26 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 7,650
Likes: 2,466
From: Indiana
I think the OP copied story makes sense, and I understand it......BUT, when non-experienced people attempt to "seek" out information, the biggest problem is finding an "expert" you can trust. I have been conned by supposed "experts", only to find out later that their "con" has been going on for years......costing lots of people, lots of money with no way to get it back. The particular con artist in Pittsburgh with their business title starting in "Corvette" cost me $3500, and I find out later he cost many others much more. So.....I have a genuine lack of trust now for lots of "experts".
Otherwise, I understand the thread theme, and when an honest "expert" is trying to make a living, giving out information and never getting a monetary reward is hard to do. I tried to deal with a well known "cam" expert with full intentions to give him my money, and all I wanted to know was the basic cam specs,.......which he refused to give me until I committed to buy, even though as soon as I installed it, I would have been able to measure what I asked to know. He lost a sale. And another famous cam expert got my money, because he did give me what I asked for. It goes both ways.
And one last point......many self proclaimed "experts" are legends in their own mind. You can usually tell when they starting talking about all the great things they have done and how many years they have been doing it. People who truly are great typically don't need to include that in every sentence out of their mouth. So, I make up my own mind about people who I trust, and who I send money to.
Otherwise, I understand the thread theme, and when an honest "expert" is trying to make a living, giving out information and never getting a monetary reward is hard to do. I tried to deal with a well known "cam" expert with full intentions to give him my money, and all I wanted to know was the basic cam specs,.......which he refused to give me until I committed to buy, even though as soon as I installed it, I would have been able to measure what I asked to know. He lost a sale. And another famous cam expert got my money, because he did give me what I asked for. It goes both ways.
And one last point......many self proclaimed "experts" are legends in their own mind. You can usually tell when they starting talking about all the great things they have done and how many years they have been doing it. People who truly are great typically don't need to include that in every sentence out of their mouth. So, I make up my own mind about people who I trust, and who I send money to.
as a new owner last summer (no clue on vettes).. I took to dealer one time initial to get overview.. (not any dealer but the one who sponsors local corvette show, expert in all...etc..etc.. oil change and pay to have them look over (safety) few issues like stiff shifting, clutch adjust.. paid ~300 bucks.. needed new clutch new this that.. 2800 bucks..figured I paid for advice and will learn to try and do clutch etc..
long story short.. this forum and great folks here guided me to driving like a 29000 car should and shift etc.. fluid add, clutch adjust.. been great for 2000 miles..
so even paying for advice with the supposed experts.. (yes I know dealer not the place but this one was to be the expert in all vettes etc...)
fyi I got all my money back and pointed to this forum..
