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I had a similar issue when installing a cam for the first time in my 96 impala. In my case, I simply couldn't tell by wiggling the lifters when all the lash was gone and was consistently bottoming out the lifters. Friend taught me to take the intake manifold off and spin the pushrods instead of wiggling the rockers. Set the lash correctly the first time and every time after that.
BTW... Where I ended up on lash adjustment is a bit different than the twisting of the rod method. This is what I am doing:
Bring engine to TDC on cylinder you are adjusting the valves on. Both lifters should be on the base circle of the cam.
Back the adjustment nut off until you can move the rocker arm off of the valve tip.
Grab the rocker arm (at the end that it touches the valve) and move it up and down. You should hear it tap the valve’s tip.
Tighten nut-move rocker up and down-tighten nut- move rocker up and down… repeat this process until there is no gap between the valve’s tip and the rocker arm. Do not move rocker arm up and down while tightening nut. If they are stamped steel rockers, even the ones with a roller tip, the socket may come in contact with the rocker and give you a false feeling. This is zero lash.
At this point, you should be able to push the push rod side of the rocker arm down and compress the plunger in the lifter. If not, there is something wrong.
Once you are at zero lash, tighten the nut ½” to ¾”.
So, my zero lash is where I cannot hear the clicking when tugging up and down on the tip of the rocker on the valve stem. Then 1/2 turn.
When I do this, with 1/2 turn, I can still spin the push rod slightly. They are oiled on both ends, perhaps with different amts on each rod, so spinning them is somewhat imprecise in my book.
Also, and the aspect that confuses me the most, is that you need to do this with them empty and compressible. New lifters mostly come filled with a red liquid of some sort and don't compress. So, with the other sets I have used in the past, one must empty the new ones first, reassemble, dip in cleaning solvent, dip in oil to get the outside lubricated (no pumping), then install and set lash as they now compress. Fully anticipate will be doing this tonight on the new set coming by mail today.
In my case, what was happening was that as I was wiggling the rockers, I was pumping down the plungers in the lifters. So it was hard to tell when I was actually hitting zero lash, and what was happening was that when I thought I was hitting zero lash, what I was really happening was I was bottoming out the plungers in the lifters. Taking the intake off and spinning the pushrods worked better for me because the instant zero lash was reached, I could feel it when twisting the pushrods.
You can still spin the pushrods, what you feel for is it suddenly getting tighter.
About the only other foolproof method is, as others have mentioned, set the rockers as best you can, start the car, and adjust by sound. Messy as hell but it works. A piece of cardboard between the valves and the edge of the head goes a long way towards keeping the engine bay somewhat tidy during this procedure.
Last edited by sstonebreaker; Aug 6, 2020 at 01:42 PM.
To save time while confirming your procedure for setting up the lifter is correct...... Work on just cylinder #1 first. Turn the crank until it is TDC on the timing mark. Remove the distributor cap and confirm you are on cylinder #1. Tighten the adjusting nut on the rockers for the intake and exhaust on just cylinder #1, using whatever method you finally decide to use. Turn over the engine and check compression on cylinder #1. If the compression is still low, you are still too tight. If it is OK, do the remaining lifters. Note: even if you have the lifter completely filled with oil, leaving it in the engine, installed, with valve spring pressure on it, will gradually bleed oil out and allow it to settle to the length it has with no oil pressure when the engine is shut off.
I had a ticking that got louder as the engine warmed up. I am running a Lunati roller cam with .575 lift. I have about 200 miles on the engine. Below are pictures of my stock intake manifold. The rivet on the lunati roller link bar is hitting the pan on the underside of the intake on both sides second cylinder from the front (3&4).
Hi Gordon.. Good question on valve spring strength. Spoke to Promaxx and they had me replace their standard springs (for flat tappet cams) with triple springs due to the hydraulic roller lifters. Would have to go back through my notes to get the seat pressures, but they are big.
In fact, was worried about that for the initial fire up planned for last Saturday. We know flat tappet cams require very prescribed break in, but for rollers, many engine builders don't worry about cam break in at all. Just run zinc oil or additive on break in. But, reading Comp's instructions for break in for a roller cam is to remove inner valve springs or use lighter springs.
Too much conflicting info on that one, so was going to roll the dice and did not bother with removing the springs for the initial break in, and had/still have the triple springs in there. Felt uncomfortable to go against the instructions from Comp, but they couldn't be validated, and the thought of changing out the valve springs with all else going on with initial break in was a bit too much.
Cheers,
Brian
Some sort of confusion here, a tripple valve spring would only be used with an all out very high lift/high duration solid roller cam and i dint think any pro-max head would have valve spring seats big enough 1.625 to accept them. All you should have to do is make sure all the cam lobes are on there base circle when you start to adjust them, run the rocker arm nut down till there is no up or down movement between the pushrod and the rocker arm. Then turn the the nut just a tiny bit while you twist the pushrod. You should still be able to twist it with your fingers but no up or down play at all between the pushrod and rocker. Then turn the adjusting nut between a 1/4 and half a turn is plenty. There is a spring in the bottom of the lifter that keeps the cup up to its top
, that combined with oil pressure when the engine is running is how the lifter functions. In fact you do not have to have any oil in lifter to do the adjustment with the engine not running. You would be better off just making sure you have no oil in the lifter. The engine startup will take care of the rest. But it will not matter if some oil is in the lifters or not. Were me would soak the lifters in lagure thinner then put them in dry. Then when i had them adjusted poor oil over the top of them with them installed in the block.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Aug 7, 2020 at 01:31 PM.
Some sort of confusion here, a tripple valve spring would only be used with an all out very high lift/high duration solid roller cam and i dint think any pro-max head would have valve spring seats big enough 1.625 to accept them. All you should have to do is make sure all the cam lobes are on there base circle when you start to adjust them, run the rocker arm nut down till there is no up or down movement between the pushrod and the rocker arm. Then turn the the nut just a tiny bit while you twist the pushrod. You should still be able to twist it with your fingers but no up or down play at all between the pushrod and rocker. Then turn the adjusting nut between a 1/4 and half a turn is plenty. There is a spring in the bottom of the lifter that keeps the cup up to its top
, that combined with oil pressure when the engine is running is how the lifter functions. In fact you do not have to have any oil in lifter to do the adjustment with the engine not running. You would be better off just making sure you have no oil in the lifter. The engine startup will take care of the rest. But it will not matter if some oil is in the lifters or not. Were me would soak the lifters in lagure thinner then put them in dry. Then when i had them adjusted poor oil over the top of them with them installed in the block.
look at post 26 & 29, op mistaken called a dual spring atriple becayse he inclkuded a damper as a third spring. But you're right, a real triple set up would be too much pressure.
also, 2mnyvets better find or make some clearance asap.
look at post 26 & 29, op mistaken called a dual spring atriple becayse he inclkuded a damper as a third spring. But you're right, a real triple set up would be too much pressure.
also, 2mnyvets better find or make some clearance asap.
got lazy never did read all the posts. It sounds a bit to me like he is not adjusting it completely on the base circle causing it to open the valves lose compression.
Wanted to post this epilogue in case anyone is interested. Know I always appreciate a conclusion of some sort in forum threads.
Got the valve lash adjustment sorted, but still not getting enough oil out of the push rods when priming. Saw oil flowing through the galley, but not enough to get through the lifters up the rods. Swapped out a second set of lifters with the same result. This issue was taking too much time, and needed to start painting. Took the motor off the run stand and was preparing to take it to a builder to diagnose the problem, break it in, and dyno tune it. About $1K, but was going to spend half that on a chassis dyno tune when done anyway.
Need to paint the front clip with a decent amount of bodywork. Last Fall, finished painting the hood, light covers, side grills, and gas cap, and started working on the clip but it turned early October and the weather hit a consistent 50-55 degrees and shut me down. Wasn't warm enough to paint again until May. Had enough to do with the interior install, Vintage Air, wiring harnesses, etc., but am very determined to not run out of warm weather again to get the front clip done--so starting now.
In the meantime, spoke to an engine builder and mentioned the oiling issue. Said he's seen "more than a few" small blocks that wouldn't pump oil out of the push rods with a primer, but would after a minute or so of running. As long as there is pressure (which is 50-55 when priming with drill), there is likely no danger to the bottom end, and if I pour a little oil up top during the initial run, shouldn't hurt anything there either.
Motor is back on an engine stand, waiting its turn. When done painting the front clip, likely mid/late Sept, will fire the motor on a run stand and see if I have an oiling problem or not. When running, if no oil after a minute or so, will shut it down and with less time pressure pull the timing cover and pan and start diagnosing the confirmed oiling issue.
I really do not think that after a certain lobe lift that you can get all 16 lifters to spew oil as some are too high in the bore......you would have to spin the engine over and I do not like doing that with the distributor out on a new build when I have it on #1 TDC for sure so I just just let er rip after a minute or so of prime.......the lifters are going to fill and displace almost immediately.
OP here. Wanted to follow up as I always appreciate when other posters do. Got my 383 running on the stand last weekend with valve covers off. Two minutes of running went by and yes, the rockers finally starting spraying oil. Never been so happy to be sprayed with oil in my life. Stubborn lifters, but no real oiling problem. Motor ran well in the ten minutes of run time, but pulled the plugs and pretty black. Will tune when get it in the car. Now on to painting the front clip. Thanks again to everyone for the help, and serious education about lifters and adjusting valve lash. Cheers.
