Hi Paul:

I guess I'am straddleing the fence on this one. I can see the merit of the NCRS's position, and I can see the position of modifying the car to your tastes. In my case, I haven't permanently modified anything on my car. I installed wheels I happen to like better than the originals, installed a higher performance engine (saved the original) upgraded the suspension. I will probably be the guy who hands the next owner a box of original parts. Every Corvette owner feels differently about what his car is, that's what makes this hobby go round. Drive em,beat on them, admire them, fix them, love them all . Aren't we lucky.

Chuck D

 

I like to keep most of my cars mostly stock. I've done a few mostly original but never the 100 point exact correctness from the factory. Pretty much the reason is because of $$. It costs alot of cash to go from mostly stock to absolutely correct. That said, I'd love to have somebody pay me to do a totally correct restoration. I think it would be great fun as I like research and detail work.
To me the difference between mostly stock and totally correct is just too costlyfor what you get.

 

That's the one!






[Modified by paul79, 12:32 PM 12/15/2002]

 

I heartly agree. I know first hand how expensive totally correct is. That's why it's a shame when I see low mileage cars hacked up (even when the parts are saved) because the car loses it's orginality and it's only orginal once. Every time something is tampered with, the value goes down and the cost to restore it goes up. But that's just me. I appreciate orginal or "correctly" restored cars....everything else is personal taste. If I want to hear a great stero I go into my den or my daily driver and listen to my Bose stero. I didn't buy a classic car to change it into a modern car.....






[Modified by gq82, 12:48 PM 12/15/2002]

 

That is my working definition drawn from some I have seen. Here is but one example for readers who have not encountered true originality before. This is a #1103291 HEI distributor. I picked it up in the C3 Parts area. That number denotes its intended use: a 1979 Corvette L-82, 225hp. But you will note a secondary code for date. And that date is incorrect for my car.

 

As a best guess, what % of C3 owners are all for originality vs. modify as you see fit? I think if you polled this forum it would be 90+% modify. But as a whole of C3 owners, what do you think is a realistic %?
-terry
PS: I don't know any C3 owners that I haven't met through this forum so I am really curious.

 

Chuck,
That is essentially the message I was trying to impart. And there is a time and happenstance context to this. When I bought my 1979 in 1986 it was simply an old used car. Many C3s sat in used car lots. The journey up the corporate ladder meant little time to drive however. (The car has 75,000km or 47,000mi on it now.) So little repairs were needed. The starter and alternator went, the exhaust was replaced but little else. Fast forward to the late 1990s when time and financial resources were more available. And suddenly I noticed there were not too many C3s on the road anymore. I thought about the originality matter and decided that I would stick with the working definition stated above. And I have. Only just recently have I joined the NCRS to learn of and enjoy their work. I find all aspects of Corvetting enjoyable.

In fact my favourite car is not original or stock. It just sticks in my mind as a mental image for some reason. Two summers ago there was a red 1967 convert on display at Carilisle. It had a 502 installed. The workmanship was just incredible; so much so that you would swear that engine was the original. I could not find a flaw in that machine. (The body was not modified.) I drool everytime I look at the pics. If I had a scanner I would put them up....

 

Mine is still original, I've just changed a "few" items.
Poly bushings (Zora would have done it)
3.08 gears changed to 3.73's (came from another Corvette somewhere)
15" stock wheels changed to 17" (hey, their still Corvette rims!!)
L-48 swapped for a ZZ4 (It's still a 350 Chevy)
350C tranny swapped for a 700R4 (the 700R4 is a Corvette transmission)
8-track swapped out for a CD player (CD's are today's version of the 8-track, it's what they install now)
Mono rear spring (again, another Corvette piece)

See, mine is all stock Corvette. Not all of it is stock for a 1980, but it's all Corvette !!

Those NCRS people are just too picky.......... :D


[Modified by BSeery, 11:15 AM 12/15/2002]

 

Terry,
In this Forum, based on my experience since 1999, I would say you are very close. I might drop back to 80%. And getting back to the definition, I am referring to stock. In what remains of the C3 population, I would say about 50:50.


[Modified by paul79, 6:30 PM 12/15/2002]

 

When I first started visiting this forum (a number of years ago) the discussions were much more related to fixing/restoring/showing than moding. Now I would agree most topics are about modifying. I think as the forum became more popular it has attracted a larger audience consisting of young guys & gals who bought their vette at very a resonable price and wanted to improve the cars lackluster performance or upgrade it's condition. Nothing wrong with that as most of these cars would never be collectable or the cost to restore them would be more than the car would ever be worth. I think as the C3's age and continue to become more valuable the emphasis will naturally turn more toward restoration/preservation and more of those folks will be become C3 owners.

 

You know what - it depends on the car, If you were talking a 68 427 numbers matching tri-power car then, I would say dont modify it. If you are talking a 1980 305 LG-4 (or was it 81?) I would say modify it before you drive it.

I dont believe that my 78 L-82 4-speed car will be worth any more than it is now in a very long time and so I will modify it to my tastes. If that is sacriledge to some of you - oh well - good thing I'm not building it to please others, just me.

SDPaul I would say the same holds true for everyone, you have to build the car that appeals to you and you alone, the rest of the hobby can take a hike, they arent going to give you anything to keep it stock, original - whatever. Build what you want and be happy.

If you have room to keep the original parts for the future owners, thats great, but I wouldnt worry about it.

And if you dont want to keep the 350, if its in rebuildable shape - I might be interested - just drop me an e-mail - just be aware, when I'm done with it - it will not resemble the motor it was before :lol:

 

There are exceptions, but I think in general the more someone drives their C3, the more likely they are to mod it, and I have to give credit for that! As you spend more and more hours in your vette you miss the tunes more. I dont mind listening to the exhaust note for a short drive on a sunny day, but when I drive to Carlisle (3 hours) I really miss having some music! .... if you make frequent trips to the dragstrip you get that desire to make it faster and faster. I am planning on more or less building a boombox that I will mount behind the seats leaving the original style radio intact in the dash. But I have to admit when I see a truly original low mileage vette of any vintage I kind of want it kept that way.... by someone else!! :lol: probably why I will never own one!!! :lol: MJ

 

Original is great! For a virgin, unmolested car with low miles! If I had a car with original components, I would just pull them and preserve them. I just can't throw anything vintage and in good shape away! :crazy:

 

I drive the 78 Limited Edition Indy Pace Car. Oooooooooh. It has the L82 motor, ooooooh. Guess what? I have modded the crap out of the car. Why? It had 99k when I bought it, it needed allot of work and when folks would ask, why did you do this to a Pace Car, I would inform them, the only Pace Cars pulling big bucks are the low mile, L82, FOUR SPEED. A high mile auto Pace car is just another Vette, albeit with more options. I say mod to your hearts' content.

 

That might be...

However, keep in mind that tastes and values change over time. What was yesterday's un-collectable, is today's hot item. It wasn't too long ago that you could pick up a regular old small block (even an automatic) mid-year Vette for not a lot of money. Things change.

Compared to some cars (like my NSX) the Corvette was made in plentiful numbers. But they're still fairly uncommon compared to other cars and there's a lot of them that have already been wrecked or rusted.

In a few years your automatic Pace Car could be worth a lot more.

I don't think anyone's saying not to every mod. I would also say that some of the restoration standards put a lot of people off.

Just think about the reversability issue and the effect it could have on your car.

-Jim


[Modified by 74_LS-4, 11:11 PM 12/15/2002]

 

And if you dont want to keep the 350, if its in rebuildable shape - I might be interested - just drop me an e-mail - just be aware, when I'm done with it - it will not resemble the motor it was before

Oh, yea it runs fine. Heads never been off ... but it's tired. What's it worth?

 

I just bought a '72 small block coupe last Monday. I found this site as the most active and most informational, but was surprised to find that most of the discussion was around modifications and not restoration. I plan to restore my car to "mostly" original. That means keeping the stock manifolds, but maybe stabbing in a healthier cam, raising the compression a notch, recurving the distributor, etc. I want stock appearance and ability to take it back to completely stock at any time. I'll be painting the car back to the original Steel Cities Grey as it is now red. For those guys who think the late C3s aren't going to appreciate in value, think again! Look at what the '67 has done over the last 5 years. 5 years or so ago you could pick one up in daily driver shape for around $10k. Now you have to double that to even get close. The early C3s are escalating like crazy. According to my Old Car Price Guide collection, the '72 has appreciated 50% in 2 years. I say if you have a numbers matching, unmodified, low mileage car (mine has 64k original and other than a crappy paint job appears to be 100% original), I say keep it that way.

For my "modified" car, I have a '74 Vega Wagon that is working on its sixth year of restoration. Frame off, rotisserie restoration. 7 coats of paint on the underside of the car, not a nut or bolt has been left unturned. It, however, sports a 425hp 355SBC, 3500 stall, narrowed 12-bolt with 4.10s, an 8-point Alston cage, full interior, etc. The car will never be worth what I have in it, while I think the Corvette will, some day.

Pics of the vega: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/bacchus_1...=/Vega&.view=t

Brian

Just some thoughts from a newbie. Great site!

 

I agree with Paul79. I think stock is a better term unless you are looking for a collector type car. A driver that looks original (but not numbers matching) keeps does it for me.

 

Like Paul, I keep mine at about 99% original save for the parts that need replacing like ball joints and such. All the numbers that came with the car are the correct items and just as was delivered from the factory 23 years ago. But I replaced the steel spring in back with a fiberglas TRW unit and I have a woodgrain kit on the center dash, NCRS wouldn't go for it , but then they don't own it either! If you like it original fine, if you like to mix it up, Great as well. Just enjoy it for today! :yesnod:

 

Mine was already modified when I got it with a new engine, radio, after market interior parts and alloy wheels. I agree that if you have a collectable model or one that is in good original condition you should consider keeping it that way. I also believe in improving things where the old parts performed poorly. Stainless parts, and better tires are good improvements which do not ruin a vinage car. A new radio with CD is great as long as it fits without looking hacked. As far as saving all the old stuff goes it is whatever you have space for. I have a 1970s Harley I saved all the original parts for. After 15 years of storing them and moving with them twice I decided to get rid of them. I changed this stuff for good reason, it performed poorly. It was never going back on. Bringing the old parts to a car show is probably the most thoughtful way of disposing of your old parts.