Here this goes again......!!! I think "cold air induction" is just another one of those great marketing ploys. Technically it makes sense, and is correct, but I seriously doubt anybody driving responsibly on the street would know the difference between cold air induction and an open air element. I side with Resdoggie on this one. People just love stuff like cold air induction. I think that we CAN improve things on these cars, and I have spent money doing so, but really.....really, sometimes it doesn't make that much difference. We convince ourselves it does...because it often cost alot of money.....but truthfully....its placebo effect at the max.

 

A lot of aftermarket parts are only worthwhile at 7000 rpm. But we buy them anyway,

 

i resemble that remark..flipping my 2 barrel 350 71 nova in 1981!
sounded like a 4 barrel

 

My 80’s factory dual snorkel pulls up big leaves un crumpled big leaves intact in the air cleaner housing , it obviously works ... i was going to do back to back 1/4 mile test with complete air cleaner assembly , then remove filter and then try no housing at all but the track was too busy to try anything , it did do a 13.64 at 102.79 mph with air filter , maybe next time

 

Less Cool air vs more Hot air, cooler air is more dense. Maybe it's a wash LOL

I think there are better easier ways to pick up power, if you make cooling it too complicated and leave the max cool air/fuel to the drag racers. I have something simple that I wanna try but it's a future video, another thread in the general section make me think of it. Still I don't plan to really test it other than SOP LOL

 

You got that right.....its a disease. I am coming to realize it more than ever. There is nothing inherently wrong with it, but for future purchases, I am going to remember it.

 

this is the situation im in... all original air cleaner was missing when I bought the car... had a spectre filter with the apparently flammable lid (never had an issue) just recently bought a spectre 728 chrome dual snorkel intake for the car. still trying to figure out the best way to make my twin turbo intake hood scoops functional. Funny how expensive all those old oem dual snorkel air cleaners are... take a look on ebay.. even the most beat up ones still sell for a couple hundred bucks.

 

and dont forget to add around another 20 hp loss at 60 from the clutch fan

 

I read up on this quite a bit for weeks.
They have done a decent amount of independent testing on this to show that in many setups it can be a wash. some are incorrectly implemented... But with the right combination of parts like say a properly functioning CAI an air gap intake and aluminum heads the difference in power is in fact noticable... Theres an episode of engine masters where they show the difference in power just in having aluminum heads that flow slightly less on the bench than the identical dart head in iron. The aluminum head makes more power due to the temp differences in the chamber.. That said having a mismatch in other areas like bolting on an airgap intake with a regular open element air cleaner pulling in hot air wont have much of any positive effect once the engine comes up to temp. Of course to be fair theory aside, all the performance comparisons Ive seen have shown the air gap doesnt really have any advantage over the older rpm design once the engine comes up to temp.. the Consensus is it was developed to have something new to sell to all those existing hot rodders who already had some form of older RPM intake on their car.

 

Air gap not much good if electric fans are pointed at the ground, lol. My Team G single plane air gap does benefit from my fan blowing air directly at it. But the bigger benefit is the wood insulator between the carb and intake. Carb is cooler which means fuel is cooler too sitting in the fuel bowls.

 

But the the exhaust air from the radiator will be hot air anyway... In truth the slight downward angle of the fan exhaust likely allows more cooler air to be pushed from the wiper windshield area if anything.. I use a wooden spacer myself for the reasons you mention.

and dont forget this is all more or less a moot point as unlike the mechanical fan, The electric fans are normally switched off at decent cruise speed and the air is being pushed through the rad from the front and exiting through the flap holes as well as fan holes. the only time the above scenerio is true would be when the car is sitting or shortly after sitting in traffic.

One unrelated peeve I have about the dual spal fan setup in a c3 is due to the angle of the rad/fan the flaps do remain open all the time. it doesnt effect the huge cooling performance gain Ive seen in my car but still I imagine more positive pulling action through the rad would be realized if they closed with gravity as intended when upright.

 

But... The carb determines the air requirements. As long as the air cleaner's snorkels, ducting, whatever, can accommodate that amount of cfm the carb is flowing an open vs. snorkeled housing makes no difference. Turbulence can certainly play a factor and the open element probably has a smoother air pathway. Another alternative not discussed yet: one could also go with the L-88 pressurized cold-air cowl induction directly sealed to the carb...

 

The exhaust air from my fan is warm, not hot. There is no way in hell the air flowing through the rad picks up all the heat from the rad and is therefore exiting at 180*F. That would mean the coolant exiting the rad would be ambient, like 70*F. C'mon, think about it. My hand would blister and cook if I left it in the fan's exhaust stream for any length of time. Try taking a shower with 180*F water. Report back. There is so much BS out there.

 

Honestly without any data supporting our opinions we are both just spewing hot air.. You in believing the electric fans are blowing all the air under the car and restricting air flow in the engine compartment and me in saying the air (warm or hot being relative) blowing from the rad isnt going to give you noticable performance boost as an actual CAI might. I know an air conditioner evaporator (or condensor) works the same way but in reverse and there is about a 30 degree temp differential between the air going in and the air coming out. so on an 80 degree day I would think air going through a heat exhanger with 180 degree water could see 20-30 degree increase and I consider the incoming 80 degree air warm myself and the 100-110degree air on the other side to be hot by comparison just as I consider it hot outside when its 95 degrees and not warm but hey thats all relative. Just like the whole CAI vs chrome open element .. different goals, different choices.
and saying things like the CAI airflow is restrictive is really a bit of a BS half truth too since we would be comparing properly engineered intakes such as the oem one here.. If its a dual oem snorkel there is thread here showing the intake does not restrict airflow until you get well over 500hp I hate to sound like a broken record but again there is an episode of engine masters where they compared many different air cleaners on a dyno that also backed this up.

 

Actually, its engine rpm and cid that dictates air requirement and the carb size is derived from that. An open air element has only one restriction - the filter. And the more surface area there is will mean even less air restriction, provided the engine can suck huge amounts of air. For oem cai, there is resistance to air flow, as you pointed out, from the less than uniform ducting and also additional restrictive air flow wherever there is a bend in the ducting. I can also use a 4" high filter whereas the oem size is 3" high and less in diameter i.e. more restrictive as far less surface area for air to flow through. Gauze filters also flow more air vs paper and still protect the engine from harmful dirt. If guys are running oem cai with a paper element, well, whats the point if you are doing it for performance? Agreed, there are cai's that are less or no restrictions to air flow up to the filter element. There are guys in here that actually race their cars (vice sticking thermocouples around the engine compartment and conclude, falsely, that more power is to be had from an oem cai) and have removed the oem cai in favour of an open element because it made their car quicker. Why is that? More warm air makes more power than less cooler air.

 

There is absolutely no comparing an a/c system to a car's coolant system because a/c systems use a refrigerant and operate on a totally different method of cooling. But, FI cars often use intercoolers just using ambient air to cool the intake charge. That's more apples-apples comparison.

There is "data" available from a few forum members. But for some reason the majority of forum members believe one member over another in their test data. I believe the other guy because his test results are what I'm experiencing under my hood. But for someone to say underhood temps are 180* says to me they have a very serious problem in removing that hot underhood air. You wouldn't be able to touch anything in the engine compartment for several minutes after shut down. Again, mine is nowhere near that hot. I also don't have any rad seals nor do I live in Death Valley.

 

Ah yes, Engine Masters. Have you dented all the tubes on your headers for better performance? Why not? It was on EM's!!!

 

I saw the episode where they dented header to check for performance loss? They found you could bang the headers up pretty good before it actually effected power output but I guess I missed the part where you imply they actually recommended denting them for better performance.. They were kidding when they were joking about it because the dyno did measure more hp after denting in case you missed it they did state that such small inconsistent gains were likely to the dynos tolerances as they ran many repeated pulls to average out these results... But whether you like it or not, it was real world testing done to prove or disprove hotrod urban legends.

And refrigerant or not it doesnt effect the temp differential between the aluminum surface on an ac condenser or evap unit and the air temp passing through being cooled or heated any more than pressurized coolant. The laws of thermodynamics are not altered unless and the HEX still works the same way unless you can explain whats changed and what im missing? and I did not say 180 degree air, I said hot air.
I did just take my car for a 20 minute spin and there is noticeable airflow blowing across my intake from the fan while the car is sitting in my driveway with fan on even with the hood up.. So much for the theory that all the air blows down under the car with electric fans..

 

while a lot of what your saying makes sense, you leaving out a lot which makes most of it only true under certain circumstances.. the directional flow the air takes through an air cleaner can make a difference in actual flow and performance. This is why some air horn elements flow better than no air filter at all and why lower profile drop air cleaners can often hurt flow performance on some setups. And like you said surface area can make a big difference too. A larger paper element can flow just as much as a smaller gauze element, and its all a moot point if the air cleaner can easily outflow the actual air flow requirements of the engine. That was the point being made in the very beginning. The dual snorkel factory air cleaner can easily outflow the requirements for all but the most extreme SBC builds but give the added advantage of cooler air coming into the carb.

 

The dented headers did increase power. They 'proved' it! Oh wait, maybe the dyno wasn't calibrated correctly?? Maybe the gains were insignificant? They seemed to be elated that there were gains! Maybe the dyno wasn't calibrated correctly for clutch fan HP loss? The point is, they do dyno tests and show results. So we should all dent our headers and switch to electric fans? Of course not.
You can't blow warm air through a 2-1/2" thick radiator and expect ALL the heat of the coolant will be transferred to the air. Not in a distance of 2-1/2". As for the evaporator which is below freezing, the air passing though into the cabin will only be 45*F-55*F or thereabouts but not below freezing. There is just not enough time for the air to heat or cool to the surface temperature of the rad or evaporator, respectively. The 2nd Law of thermodynamics, right? Btw, I'm enjoying the discussion.