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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 09:44 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P.
Comp Cams has facilities in Miss, Tenn, ILL & Mich. They have 28 CNC machines at the factories that make long production runs of thousands of cams and other machinery for producing custom racing cams of 20 units or less. They have 250 employees and it takes ten workers to make a cam from start to finish.

This does not sound like they farm-out to me.
Unless things have recently changed I have it from a good source that common run of the mill cams are ground in Michigan.
And it only takes 1 person to grind a cam.. because my cam guy does it every day. But he keeps nothing on the. Shelf
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P.
I disagree. That is not how they became a multi-million dollar business.
Comp Cams is number one in sales and number one in respect for their products and the way they do business.
They didn't achieve that rating by hiring dummies.

Come on boy's its time to go out and get real.
Comp Cams is number one in sales because they get used in every engine build in every magazine. same as Holley. Why do they get used? Because, they give free cams to every magazine building an engine. And people reading those magazines believe that the writers must have chosen the best stuff, right? Advertising dollars is why Comp is number one.
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P.
I disagree. That is not how they became a multi-million dollar business.
Comp Cams is number one in sales and number one in respect for their products and the way they do business.
They didn't achieve that rating by hiring dummies.

Come on boy's its time to go out and get real.
Why would you defend a company that has produced so many inferior metallurgy cams. They helped create the era of having to worry about cams going flat lobed on break in. They actually sold bad cam shafts and when they started failing then added blanket disclaimers in the fine print about break in procedures with their sorry Austempered flame hardening. I had one of their very first NEW XE H-rollers fail and trashed the motor with all the metal it fed through it.

Later on I ordered a custom billet solid roller with a sleeved on dizzy gear. I wait and wait and call and call and I heard every excuse like the tech failing to send over the order, the cam didn't pass lobes within tolerances,,,,,,,, Then then the cam finally arrives and it's nearly racing season. NOt a sleeved on gear, so they say it's a month out to make me what I ordered, but they would happily sell me at cost the brand new composite dizzy gear. Well another test subject failure of the new composite gear. I just shifted into 5th gear up around 145 mph and the motor went silent and the tach went to Zero. It was like the oddest thing that I every experienced driving. The composite gear shredded it's teeth. It took me a little bit on time to figure out why I didn't have any spark in the pits. Who would think that their dizzy isn't turning. Oh about calling the AH tech support at comp cams. They told me that they had corrected the brittle gear problem on some of the first ones manufactured and they would send me a new one along with my original sleeved cam order that finally got made when they receive my wrong cam and torn up gear. I had to get a manager involved. What a hassle!

Last edited by gkull; Jun 16, 2021 at 10:49 AM.
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 11:11 AM
  #24  
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I used to use Comp, but got gun shy on their cams. I do use their rockers though and have not had any issues...yet. As far as cams go, I only use Bullet Racing cams now and they do grind their own cams. Ask for Tim if you call them, he worked for GM as an engineer at one time. He also works for one of the NASCAR teams I believe and comes out here to Phoenix at PIR for the races. As a matter of fact, BRC grinds cams for C Struab also I believe, but that's another sad story with lots of $$$ spent and I will NEVER use another cam design by that guy ever again.
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 11:44 AM
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Jim dowell at Racer Brown is a 1 man show, it's hard to beat a cam that 10 people haven't handled. He doesn't want more business doesn't need he's getting old now. Zero spark grinds and quality cores make. A difference.
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 12:26 PM
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Comp is a marketing giant thats how they got big..late 80s.early 90s something like that.

Last edited by cv67; Jun 16, 2021 at 12:36 PM.
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 04:03 PM
  #27  
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My experience with calling cam companies was that every one gave a vastly different recommendation. there was no way the variance could be so large. so I educated myself on cams, spent a year doing it.

Op, I feel your cam is way too short of a duration with good lift and way too wide of a lobe separation.

I would go with something in the 225-230 duration @ .050 and a lobe separation of 108* to 107* for a 383 with decent gearing and/or stall converter. Meaning 3.55 rear or higher and 2500 or higher stall preferably 3000 stall if a 3.55.

Your current selection is likely to produce too much cylinder pressure and promote detonation. In addition it will severely limit your upper range RPM and HP. I'm assuming 9.5 CR or better on this motor with aluminum heads and pump gas.

Look to see What DCR limits are for cast iron heads vs aluminum heads and calculate your DCR.
Use this calculator.
https://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/calculator/

Nothing worse than the wrong cam for an application.
I use a 219/219 @ .050 roller cam with a 108 LSA .549" of lift on a 350 CI motor and produce 10.0" of vacuum @ 650-700 RPM in the worst conditions I experience and still have enough for brakes and headlights.

Last edited by REELAV8R; Jun 16, 2021 at 04:18 PM.
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 04:45 PM
  #28  
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I know I read multiple times on other forums and from a howards employee that at least at one point pretty recently howards cams were making some of the comp/lunati cams... I think at this point different types of grinds are made in different facilities by different companies and branded or rebranded and sold
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 04:46 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by 7t9l82
And in most run of the mill cams they don't even grind their own cams anymore. Alot are ground by an OEM supplier, but they won't tell you that. That's another way they became million dollar businesses.
yeah Howards..
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 05:11 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by REELAV8R
My experience with calling cam companies was that every one gave a vastly different recommendation. there was no way the variance could be so large. so I educated myself on cams, spent a year doing it.

Op, I feel your cam is way too short of a duration with good lift and way too wide of a lobe separation.

I would go with something in the 225-230 duration @ .050 and a lobe separation of 108* to 107* for a 383 with decent gearing and/or stall converter. Meaning 3.55 rear or higher and 2500 or higher stall preferably 3000 stall if a 3.55.

Your current selection is likely to produce too much cylinder pressure and promote detonation. In addition it will severely limit your upper range RPM and HP. I'm assuming 9.5 CR or better on this motor with aluminum heads and pump gas.

Look to see What DCR limits are for cast iron heads vs aluminum heads and calculate your DCR.
Use this calculator.
https://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/calculator/

Nothing worse than the wrong cam for an application.
I use a 219/219 @ .050 roller cam with a 108 LSA .549" of lift on a 350 CI motor and produce 10.0" of vacuum @ 650-700 RPM in the worst conditions I experience and still have enough for brakes and headlights.
I forgot to mention mine is a 4spd, not auto. 383,alum heads
The cam you describe is close to what I have now and I'm trying to get a little more lift
Mine now is a roller
509/528
222/230@50
107LSA
Your cam sounds closer to what I'd like to get. Maybe a little bigger and change intake to match. I'm kind of limited on that with a stock low hood.
Comp says their XFI cams have good vacuum and my choice would be ok. I'm trying to make up with lift what I lose with the low intake. It was about 440hp with a tall single plane.
This is why I originaly asked the question

Last edited by 0311 jarhead; Jun 16, 2021 at 05:31 PM.
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 06:59 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 0311 jarhead
I forgot to mention mine is a 4spd, not auto. 383,alum heads
The cam you describe is close to what I have now and I'm trying to get a little more lift
Mine now is a roller
509/528
222/230@50
107LSA
Your cam sounds closer to what I'd like to get. Maybe a little bigger and change intake to match. I'm kind of limited on that with a stock low hood.
Comp says their XFI cams have good vacuum and my choice would be ok. I'm trying to make up with lift what I lose with the low intake. It was about 440hp with a tall single plane.
This is why I originaly asked the question
What kind of lift at the lobe? You may be able to put in some 1.6 rockers and get the lift you want, assuming you're not running that now and that 1.6 does not exceed .600" lift. Most common RR heads have a .600" lift limit.
The cam you have should give you more power than 440.
Look for restrictions other places, like exhaust and intake. The flow of the heads may be sub par, limiting your power output. what kind of heads are they?

I get 440 HP out of my 350 motor. Using AFR 180's though. Good flowing heads with no restrictions on the intake or the exhaust side.
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 07:03 PM
  #32  
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I studied cams, heads, and compression ratio for my 383 using expensive engine dyno simulation software at my job .

I was introduced to BSFC. while running motors on engine dynos.. Brake Specif Fuel Consumption. Basically how many pounds of fuel does it take to make one horse power.

I looked at 1000,s of graphs and the most efficient highest average power across the rpm range of any given motor was accomplished with wider LSA,

My 5 speed equipped vette 383 was good enough to go racing and probably about 100,000 road miles with refreshing.

236/242 112 with lower to mid .600 lift with AFR 210 heads. I can drive around in OD below 2000 rpm or drive it at the class limited speed of 175 mph at just over 6200 rpm in .64 OD. Depending on my rear tire diameter

Drag racing motors want a tight LSA , highest peak TQ over a smaller rpm, and don't give a hoot about BSFC Gas mileage 🙂
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by REELAV8R
What kind of lift at the lobe? You may be able to put in some 1.6 rockers and get the lift you want, assuming you're not running that now and that 1.6 does not exceed .600" lift. Most common RR heads have a .600" lift limit.
The cam you have should give you more power than 440.
Look for restrictions other places, like exhaust and intake. The flow of the heads may be sub par, limiting your power output. what kind of heads are they?

I get 440 HP out of my 350 motor. Using AFR 180's though. Good flowing heads with no restrictions on the intake or the exhaust side.
I've got the GM brand heads that come on their 383 crate motor. ( whoever makes those)
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 09:22 AM
  #34  
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There was a time about 15 years ago that Comp did not make a single thing in their catalog short of custom solid roller cams. Not one part. It was easy to tell because their stuff in other smaller guys catalogs and the exact cam specs in other companies catalogs......
I use Howard's now for most things.....I really don't build any high end race stuff anymore and I don't want to....but when I do, BRC (Bullet) is the goto for custom cams.....
One thing about Howard's is that their advertising budget is very small.....where as Comp is a PRI and SEMA *****.....
I abandoned Comp over 10 years ago when their roller lifters started blowing apart and their answer to the problem was anything but being culpable about it.
I use only one product line from them...the Magnum FT cam line....30 year old grinds that break in and work.

Jebby
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 09:39 AM
  #35  
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Just another example for the OP to mull over.
I have a 383, with automatic trans and 3.73 gears. My cam is a Crower hyd. roller 225/232 duration, .535/.550 lift, with 1.5 roller tip rockers. I have 112 LSA. This was custom ground for an extra $30 since Crower offers this cam with 108 LSA in their catalog. I didn't want any problem with headlights and brakes so I got the bigger LSA. My car has tremendous low end and mid range power, and good vacuum.

Last edited by BKbroiler; Jun 17, 2021 at 09:41 AM.
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 10:37 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by gkull
I studied cams, heads, and compression ratio for my 383 using expensive engine dyno simulation software at my job .

I was introduced to BSFC. while running motors on engine dynos.. Brake Specif Fuel Consumption. Basically how many pounds of fuel does it take to make one horse power.

I looked at 1000,s of graphs and the most efficient highest average power across the rpm range of any given motor was accomplished with wider LSA,

My 5 speed equipped vette 383 was good enough to go racing and probably about 100,000 road miles with refreshing.

236/242 112 with lower to mid .600 lift with AFR 210 heads. I can drive around in OD below 2000 rpm or drive it at the class limited speed of 175 mph at just over 6200 rpm in .64 OD. Depending on my rear tire diameter

Drag racing motors want a tight LSA , highest peak TQ over a smaller rpm, and don't give a hoot about BSFC Gas mileage 🙂
It is my conclusion (mind you I'm not an expert here) from quite a lot of reading that it's about the overlap*. You can get the same overlap with wide LSA and more duration or a narrow LSA and less duration. Your basically deciding how the power is delivered.
I like the slightly higher and peakier peak torques offered in the mid range by the narrow LSA with less duration vs the flatter power curve of the wider LSA with more duration.
As a side note I still get 18 MPG with a TH350 and 3.55 rear ratio @ 80 MPH turning 3700 RPM. Could a better efficiency be achieved? Probably, a little, with the current configuration, but 95% has been obtained and I like how it performs.
I get wheel spin in the 1st to 2nd shift. And I can rap it out to 6300 RPM (valve spring limit due to float and I'm using hydraulic retro rollers) and the power band has not flattened out yet. You can feel when a power curve starts to flatten out in an engine. I can feel it in any DD and even in my Camaro or Challenger.


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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 12:31 PM
  #37  
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None of these answers really matter because of too many unknowns. Like what is the compression ration of this chevy crate motor? What is the max lift on the crate motors heads? What is the closed and open spring pressures. What are the specs of this 440 hp cam.

If you know what you have it is much easier to determine what is needed.
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