Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan?
12-20-2002, 10:01 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
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Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan?
OK, what I thought (mabye even hoped :rolleyes: ) was a bad U-joint turns out, I think, to be a worn yoke.
In fact, both yokes have an excessive amount (maybe greater than 1/4") of movement.
I've read through some of the archived threads and there's a lot of good information there, but most of it talked about removing the diff and I couldn't quite get an idea if that's absolutely necesassary to do to replace the yokes.
Assuming the innards of the diff haven't been torn up and I don't need to rebuild/replace it, what do I have to do to replace the yokes?
I thought I had read you can't remove the cover without removing the diff from the car, TRUE?
I'm no machinist and I don't have any machinist buddies; should I just buy new yokes? Yes, they're expen$ive, but wouldn't they be worth it rather than using old yokes with that much play?
What are the dozen other things I'm not thinking or don't have the slightest clue about :confused:
AND HOW DO THESE THINGS WEAR DOWN :cuss Do they actually run against the center pin?
In fact, both yokes have an excessive amount (maybe greater than 1/4") of movement.
I've read through some of the archived threads and there's a lot of good information there, but most of it talked about removing the diff and I couldn't quite get an idea if that's absolutely necesassary to do to replace the yokes.
Assuming the innards of the diff haven't been torn up and I don't need to rebuild/replace it, what do I have to do to replace the yokes?
I thought I had read you can't remove the cover without removing the diff from the car, TRUE?
I'm no machinist and I don't have any machinist buddies; should I just buy new yokes? Yes, they're expen$ive, but wouldn't they be worth it rather than using old yokes with that much play?
What are the dozen other things I'm not thinking or don't have the slightest clue about :confused:
AND HOW DO THESE THINGS WEAR DOWN :cuss Do they actually run against the center pin?
12-20-2002, 10:41 PM
#2
Team Owner
Re: Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan? (jerryp58)
Yes, they run against the center pin, and as the upper link in the suspenson they allways will, as there is a certain amount of camber aligned into the suspenson..to the top of tire leans in..making the 1/2 shafts under compression tension...
in short you can't reasonable repair the differnetial yokes without removing from the car completely....do a search for procedures...
you need new yokes, and cross shaft OR redrill at a machine shop for the other end of the shaft...at 90 degrees from the original oprintation so that flips the shaft to the 'good' spot.....it's hard to find and unavailable...
at 1'4 inch you are 2.5 times the MAX allowable and even that is a stretch...
the realy safe max is about .065 or so...1/16 th inch....maybe I"ll go an eighth but the factory kills it at .02 something....
you need tear it down this winter, and do the 1/2 shafts for universals...drive shaft for same.... 6 joints total....
and the internals of the diff itself....posi clutches...and yokes...
vendor Yogi Bear has best prices and good quality I know of over the years....
GENE
in short you can't reasonable repair the differnetial yokes without removing from the car completely....do a search for procedures...
you need new yokes, and cross shaft OR redrill at a machine shop for the other end of the shaft...at 90 degrees from the original oprintation so that flips the shaft to the 'good' spot.....it's hard to find and unavailable...
at 1'4 inch you are 2.5 times the MAX allowable and even that is a stretch...
the realy safe max is about .065 or so...1/16 th inch....maybe I"ll go an eighth but the factory kills it at .02 something....
you need tear it down this winter, and do the 1/2 shafts for universals...drive shaft for same.... 6 joints total....
and the internals of the diff itself....posi clutches...and yokes...
vendor Yogi Bear has best prices and good quality I know of over the years....
GENE
12-21-2002, 07:11 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Re: Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan? (jerryp58)
Jerry,
I am in the same boat. I have been holding off on this project for almost 4 years. It's one of those while I'm in there kind of projects. If I have to pull the diff, may as well replace the clutch pack, rear spring, strut rods, bushings etc.... Start savings up the $$$$$
I am in the same boat. I have been holding off on this project for almost 4 years. It's one of those while I'm in there kind of projects. If I have to pull the diff, may as well replace the clutch pack, rear spring, strut rods, bushings etc.... Start savings up the $$$$$
12-21-2002, 07:53 AM
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Re: Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan? (Frankenvette)
I think you're better off removing the diff and rebuilding everything. You can't replace the stub axles "in the car". The diff, with or without the cover has to come out. You can remove the differential leaving the cover. All that ground off metal from the stub axles and C clips went somewhere over the years.
Reconditioned stub axles are available that have hardened tool steel inserts on the ends. You can often get these with an exchange/core charge, if your axles are not worn down to or beyond the "C" clip groove. Chuck
[Modified by Chuck Gongloff, 7:57 AM 12/21/2002]
Reconditioned stub axles are available that have hardened tool steel inserts on the ends. You can often get these with an exchange/core charge, if your axles are not worn down to or beyond the "C" clip groove. Chuck
[Modified by Chuck Gongloff, 7:57 AM 12/21/2002]
12-21-2002, 08:26 AM
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Re: Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan? (Chuck Gongloff)
Thanks for the replies guys.
FYI, U-joints (6), spring (steel), and strut rods (adjustable poly) are all about 6-7 years ago.
I'd like to add on some questions:
1. Is the method for removing the carrier alone that's listed in the Haynes manual any good (Chuck, you alluded to this process in your post, I guess)?
2. Are there any "negatives" associated with hardened yokes? Will I eventually tear up the new differential (center pin or whatever)?
3. What kind of problems could this have caused with the rest of the rear suspension? Could I have damaged the trailing arms?
4. Is there anything else back there that could be defective and contributing to the yokes wearing, or do they just do it on their own?
5. Finally (sorry for so many questions), I'm leaning towards getting a rebuilt rear and two new yokes from ZIP for about $700. I don't think I could do anything with the yokes myself. So, how much money would I save if I tried to rebuild the diff myself? PS I have no press, no gauges for this job, just "normal" tools.
Thanks again,
Jerry
FYI, U-joints (6), spring (steel), and strut rods (adjustable poly) are all about 6-7 years ago.
I'd like to add on some questions:
1. Is the method for removing the carrier alone that's listed in the Haynes manual any good (Chuck, you alluded to this process in your post, I guess)?
2. Are there any "negatives" associated with hardened yokes? Will I eventually tear up the new differential (center pin or whatever)?
3. What kind of problems could this have caused with the rest of the rear suspension? Could I have damaged the trailing arms?
4. Is there anything else back there that could be defective and contributing to the yokes wearing, or do they just do it on their own?
5. Finally (sorry for so many questions), I'm leaning towards getting a rebuilt rear and two new yokes from ZIP for about $700. I don't think I could do anything with the yokes myself. So, how much money would I save if I tried to rebuild the diff myself? PS I have no press, no gauges for this job, just "normal" tools.
Thanks again,
Jerry
12-21-2002, 08:26 AM
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Re: Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan? (jerryp58)
Afraid so! Both Gene and Chuck are right, Have a chat to DARYL @Daryl,s Transmissions and Diffs,He was real helpful to me when I had to do mine.
Don,t skimp on doing the lot while your in there, cross shaft, clutch pack, bearings and thrust washers,hardened yokes and c clips etc. you wont belive how heavy the unit is to rave in and out.Make sure everything is impecably clean and no metal filings or bits of c clip are left hidden or otherwise clutch pack will be first to go south after the nasty chatters.Use the correct G.M. Diff lube and G.M. additive to refill when complete. Good luck,take your time and watch your fingers and cover gasket on reinstating. SAM.
Don,t skimp on doing the lot while your in there, cross shaft, clutch pack, bearings and thrust washers,hardened yokes and c clips etc. you wont belive how heavy the unit is to rave in and out.Make sure everything is impecably clean and no metal filings or bits of c clip are left hidden or otherwise clutch pack will be first to go south after the nasty chatters.Use the correct G.M. Diff lube and G.M. additive to refill when complete. Good luck,take your time and watch your fingers and cover gasket on reinstating. SAM.
12-21-2002, 11:15 AM
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Re: Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan? (SARASOTA SAM)
It might be possible to offset the cost of new yokes by having the ends milled off and reuse them in a 6 link application. This would have you buy another set of Poly Struts and make a couple of mounting brackets to create an upper link. Check the archives here and see what you think. JIM
12-21-2002, 11:15 AM
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Re: Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan? (jerryp58)
I'd like to add on some questions:
1. Is the method for removing the carrier alone that's listed in the Haynes manual any good (Chuck, you alluded to this process in your post, I guess)?
Don't have a Haynes manual, but you have 3 ways to get the diff out. One way is to pull it with the crossmember. This requires removing the bolts through the "sombrero" bushings, and PRYING the heck out of both of them. You can get the entire enchilada to drop out.
A second way is to reach up above the crossmember and remove the 4 bolts above and drop the diff that way.
A third way is to leave the cover on the crossmember and remove the 10 or so bolts that hold the diff to the cover. You can remove the diff without the cover that way.
Easiest??? None are easy. If you can do it, taking the crossmember out is the best IMHO.
2. Are there any "negatives" associated with hardened yokes? Will I eventually tear up the new differential (center pin or whatever)?
No. The originals are hardened on the ends too. As they wear, the "hardening" area wears away. Then the ends grind away quickly.
3. What kind of problems could this have caused with the rest of the rear suspension? Could I have damaged the trailing arms?
Don't think so.
4. Is there anything else back there that could be defective and contributing to the yokes wearing, or do they just do it on their own?
The yokes and the half shafts are both a driveline component and a suspension component. Think of the stub axles and the half shafts as the "upper A frame" of your rear suspension. It's normal wear and tear. As the stub axle ends wear, many guys can't adjust their rear camber. That's why you see so many old Corvettes driving down the road with the rear tires squatted out. There's no more adjustment inward left in the strut rods. Then, guys get a big hammer out and start bending them to try to get the camber adjusted.
5. Finally (sorry for so many questions), I'm leaning towards getting a rebuilt rear and two new yokes from ZIP for about $700. I don't think I could do anything with the yokes myself. So, how much money would I save if I tried to rebuild the diff myself? PS I have no press, no gauges for this job, just "normal" tools.
No idea about cost, but if originality is of any concern to you, I would rebuild my original rear, as it is coded and date stamped for your car.
Thanks again,
Jerry
1. Is the method for removing the carrier alone that's listed in the Haynes manual any good (Chuck, you alluded to this process in your post, I guess)?
Don't have a Haynes manual, but you have 3 ways to get the diff out. One way is to pull it with the crossmember. This requires removing the bolts through the "sombrero" bushings, and PRYING the heck out of both of them. You can get the entire enchilada to drop out.
A second way is to reach up above the crossmember and remove the 4 bolts above and drop the diff that way.
A third way is to leave the cover on the crossmember and remove the 10 or so bolts that hold the diff to the cover. You can remove the diff without the cover that way.
Easiest??? None are easy. If you can do it, taking the crossmember out is the best IMHO.
2. Are there any "negatives" associated with hardened yokes? Will I eventually tear up the new differential (center pin or whatever)?
No. The originals are hardened on the ends too. As they wear, the "hardening" area wears away. Then the ends grind away quickly.
3. What kind of problems could this have caused with the rest of the rear suspension? Could I have damaged the trailing arms?
Don't think so.
4. Is there anything else back there that could be defective and contributing to the yokes wearing, or do they just do it on their own?
The yokes and the half shafts are both a driveline component and a suspension component. Think of the stub axles and the half shafts as the "upper A frame" of your rear suspension. It's normal wear and tear. As the stub axle ends wear, many guys can't adjust their rear camber. That's why you see so many old Corvettes driving down the road with the rear tires squatted out. There's no more adjustment inward left in the strut rods. Then, guys get a big hammer out and start bending them to try to get the camber adjusted.
5. Finally (sorry for so many questions), I'm leaning towards getting a rebuilt rear and two new yokes from ZIP for about $700. I don't think I could do anything with the yokes myself. So, how much money would I save if I tried to rebuild the diff myself? PS I have no press, no gauges for this job, just "normal" tools.
No idea about cost, but if originality is of any concern to you, I would rebuild my original rear, as it is coded and date stamped for your car.
Thanks again,
Jerry
12-21-2002, 11:48 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
Re: Worn Differential Yokes -- What's My Game Plan? (jerryp58)
Thanks for the replies guys.
FYI, U-joints (6), spring (steel), and strut rods (adjustable poly) are all about 6-7 years ago.
I'd like to add on some questions:
1. Is the method for removing the carrier alone that's listed in the Haynes manual any good (Chuck, you alluded to this process in your post, I guess)?
FYI, U-joints (6), spring (steel), and strut rods (adjustable poly) are all about 6-7 years ago.
I'd like to add on some questions:
1. Is the method for removing the carrier alone that's listed in the Haynes manual any good (Chuck, you alluded to this process in your post, I guess)?
I did a brief write up on my rear end rebuild which included side yokes. Its not totally complete as i lost access to a digital camera - but it might help.
it can be found at http://earchitect.50megs.com/corvette/susp.html
Best of luck - its not as tough as it sounds - especially if you dont have to remove trailing arms with frozen bolts like I did - but thats a different fix.....
