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In the process of replacing a bad starter on my 73 454 4-speed and noticed some heavy wear on some of the flywheel teeth. Suspect solenoid went bad - after pulling the starter, it is still stuck in the engaged position and the gear teeth are shredded. Unfortunately, it wasn't just the starter gear that took some damage but also the flywheel - no noticeable teeth missing, but some chipped corners and such. Going to stick a flex magnet in the flywheel housing to try to clean up the bits of metal that fell off inside and then replace the starter. My plan is to then monitor how it's driving and if I'm getting any gear slippage or difficult shifts make a decision about a flywheel replacement. Trying to avoid all the additional work to replace the flywheel if it doesn't actually cause performance issues, but looking for opinions on if it's in worse condition than I think it is based on a picture:
You don't have to replace the entire flywheel. You just have to replace the starter ring gear. Most full automotive machine shops will be able to remove the ring gear with a cold chisel and install the new one with some heat. They cost about $30 or so. The not so easy part is removing everything to get at the gear. You could try to clean up the gear with a file. You stand the chance of ruining the Bendix gear on the starter and doing further damage to the ring gear. If you replace the ring gear, consider replacing the rear main seal while everything is apart. Same goes for the clutch, T/O bearing etc. Jerry
While it does look like starter BENDIX sticking....that is not the only cause.
In the AIM manual, the starter shimming technique is VERY SPECIFIC. I suspect that at sometime in the past someone 'slammed' an un-shimmed un-adjusted starter in there....realized their mistake (the noise IMMEDIATELY should tell you) and corrected it.
the ring can also be removed with just heat. Typically, only one side of ring gear chewed up. Quite often the gear can be heated & removed and then flipped over & heated & reinstalled.
The wrong starter bolts have also done lotsa damage due to improper/no knurl & taper.
You don't have to replace the entire flywheel. You just have to replace the starter ring gear. Most full automotive machine shops will be able to remove the ring gear with a cold chisel and install the new one with some heat. They cost about $30 or so. The not so easy part is removing everything to get at the gear. You could try to clean up the gear with a file. You stand the chance of ruining the Bendix gear on the starter and doing further damage to the ring gear. If you replace the ring gear, consider replacing the rear main seal while everything is apart. Same goes for the clutch, T/O bearing etc. Jerry
Ah, good to know! New to all this so thanks for the info I'm really trying to tackle this in baby steps, so I might see how it fairs with a new starter for a bit. A rear seal replacement is already in my future but not quite ready to tackle such a large effort right away if I can put it off for a little while.
Originally Posted by L-46man
While it does look like starter BENDIX sticking....that is not the only cause.
In the AIM manual, the starter shimming technique is VERY SPECIFIC. I suspect that at sometime in the past someone 'slammed' an un-shimmed un-adjusted starter in there....realized their mistake (the noise IMMEDIATELY should tell you) and corrected it.
Good luck...
unkahal
I think you may be right. When I pulled the starter, it wasn't shimmed. I've watched some videos on summit for starter installs where they show the paper clip gap technique of alignment and shimming and will have to see how it goes on install. Guessing I'll need to add some shims since they weren't there before.
Originally Posted by ebbnflow
the ring can also be removed with just heat. Typically, only one side of ring gear chewed up. Quite often the gear can be heated & removed and then flipped over & heated & reinstalled.
The wrong starter bolts have also done lotsa damage due to improper/no knurl & taper.
No shims, but it does at least have the knurled bolts
If you don`t replace ring gear the chewed up teeth will chew up the new starter gear . The ring gear teeth are beveled to give a better engagement with the starter , I`m not sure that ring gear can just be flipped .
If you picture is showing the only bad spot, I would clean up those few teeth with a file and go with it. I've seen way worse ring gear and still working well, with out noise, for years. True, you may or may not need to shim new starters. Then when time arrives to do other work in that area, replace ring gear when it is then out.
I'm with 60 Shark...file out the rough nasty spots! Not enough damage to go down the rabbit hole!
I've seen much worse....including a CE I went to buy...where upon starting it, it sounded like 1/4 of the teeth were NOT THERE AT ALL.
Owner, "oh yeah in order to get it started I have to turn the crankshaft bolt until the teeth line up"...
Me; I just drove 2.5 hours to look at this car, don't you think this was important enough to tell be BEFORE I left?
That last sentence was heard by him as I was getting back into my car!
Ah, good to know! New to all this so thanks for the info I'm really trying to tackle this in baby steps, so I might see how it fairs with a new starter for a bit. A rear seal replacement is already in my future but not quite ready to tackle such a large effort right away if I can put it off for a little while.
I think you may be right. When I pulled the starter, it wasn't shimmed. I've watched some videos on summit for starter installs where they show the paper clip gap technique of alignment and shimming and will have to see how it goes on install. Guessing I'll need to add some shims since they weren't there before.
No shims, but it does at least have the knurled bolts
But have you Verified they are THE correct bolts for your block & starter? Not all knurls same; slight diameter differences as well.
Don’t flip ring gear. Other side doesn’t have the taper on the teeth. You are doing away with the old style 10MT delco starter? Good. I built em for a few years and will only mess with one now on oddball boat applications.
Don’t flip ring gear. Other side doesn’t have the taper on the teeth. You are doing away with the old style 10MT delco starter? Good. I built em for a few years and will only mess with one now on oddball boat applications.
Ended up throwing another 25lb brick in there. Have points ignition and didn't want to have to mess with rewiring in a cathode to accommodate the ignition relay as this is literally the first time I've worked on this car (or any other) other than an oil change. Was eyeballing a CVR 5323R at the recommendation of Jebbysan in another thread, but they weren't shipping until December and I wanted to try to get the car up and running again before winter rolled around - was worth the extra $70 it costs me in the longer term. The 5323R has the ignition relay built in and wouldn't require the extra wiring which is nice. Will probably upgrade to that in the long term, but wanted an easy 1:1 swap while I'm still getting comfortable working on things. Got it up and running over the weekend and started smooth - no clanking or pinging or anything, but a couple times just no power from the battery. The ignition relay wire was looking pretty ratty and I just left that unaddressed, so I'll probably go in and clean up the wire with a new terminal as a suspect it's just shorting out there.
Ended up popping off the flywheel housing cover and fishing out a couple good-sized chunks of the starter gear with one of those flex magnets. The ring gear actually looked pretty clean all the way around besides those couple of dinged up teeth.
Last edited by durinsbane; Oct 25, 2021 at 02:54 PM.
Very fortunate, indeed. As mentioned, use a file (that would take quite a while to do) or a die grinder to smooth over the chipped/jagged surfaces of those damaged teeth. The starter gear will engage more than one tooth, so what you have (if properly cleaned up) is unlikely to cause further problems with proper bolts and correct clearance between the starter gear and ring gear.
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Flywheel damage from starter gear sticking
I'm really trying to tackle this in baby steps, so I might see how it fairs with a new starter for a bit. A rear seal replacement is already in my future but not quite ready to tackle such a large effort right away if I can put it off for a little while.
