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I see threads related to problems getting the 69-72 wiper doors to work properly, and thought about asking my questions on those threads......but its more appropriate that I start a new thread.
On my 69 Roadster project, I fully intend to use the original wiper door setup. I am aware that some folks eliminate the wiper door, and put long hoods on the car. The car actually came with a long hood installed, but I also got the mechanism and door with the project. In fact, the long hood I have is an L88 aftermarket SHORT hood that someone nicely grafted on the extended portion of the hood. My intent was to keep that hood and cut off that extension.....or just sell it and buy a proper short L88 hood.
But,.....my real question is this. What is the "problem" with the original vacuum operated wiper doors? I know its a rather complex setup, and in many ways kind of "James Bond" way of hiding windshield wipers. The car looks better with the clean and covered wiper area.....but it sure adds to the complexity. Its not as bad, or as silly, as the "fiberoptics" system in the car because it does have a useful purpose.
Is the problem a "rigging" issue, where the switches all have to be properly adjusted to make it work right.....or is it now a problem with quality components that are no longer available? Can it be made to work right in today's world?
Secondly,....I know Richard454 has an electrical conversion, as he does on the headlights, and I think his setup is great.....but I really don't want to go down that path on this car. My vacuum operated 77 headlights work every time I need them.....like once a year. I suspect I will need the windshield wipers once a year as well. But in regards to the wiper door......
- Is there a way to make them work "mechanically"? Like could I open the hood, push the lever and then the wipers work?
- Does the vacuum hold the door down?
- Once in position, without vacuum.....does the door stay in its last position?
- Is there a way to make the system reliable with the original design vacuum system?
So......Chinese junk collapsed the reservoir? There have been threads recently on the switches being bad too.
Is that mechanical method a real option...i.e., can you just open the hood, push it, the door opens, and THEN select the wipers on and off? Or,....as soon as you push it, the wipers run till you get back out of the car and pull the lever? I know its sorta Bubba......but honestly, I avoid the rain most of the time, and when I get caught, its an easy thing to do. I used to open and close my headlights manually as well, but decided to get the vacuum system working.
When you really don't ever use a system,......why have the problem of the complexity? People put manual shutoff valves on the heater to avoid the problem with failing vacuum valves. I bought an NOS vacuum valve and I think its already failing me.....so concede.....put a damn plumbing valve in. When its cold out....open the hood, open the valve. Easy.
Frankly.....the biggest reason I don't like the vacuum systems on the car is if and when they become vacuum leaks.....they effect how the engine runs. I don't like the risk of that for systems I use once a year.
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Jul 11, 2022 at 11:41 AM.
Is that mechanical method a real option...i.e., can you just open the hood, push it, the door opens, and THEN select the wipers on and off?
Yes.
The factory set up allows you to remove a rubber plug on the vac actuator and push open the door using any blunt instrument in the event of vacuum loss. The **** in the photo is just a handy extension so you don't have to use a blunt instrument.
To close it you just push down on the door itself (after shutting off the wipers). Without vacuum to the actuator, the door will stay in whatever position you manually put it in.
I manually opened/closed my door for several months after buying the car until I found the simple problem that was preventing operation, and fixed it.
You can make it all work, just takes some time and the correct parts.
Ensure lift mechanism all works smoothly and is adjusted.
Have a good vacuum actuator
The wiper door shutoff valve can be an issue. Most of the reproduction items don’t work properly. There is one that does work and Alan71 put me onto that. Custom made and tested for NCRS owners who want to pass all tests. Was not cheap. Would need to check my receipts to find who sells.
Adjust all the switches etc.
Oh and ensure your vacuum system is all working 100%, and with modern relays that means possibly adding a vacuum restrictor to slow down vacuum build up at start etc.
And then check it each year to ensure it keeps working ok and no hoses come loose etc.
You can make it all work, just takes some time and the correct parts.
Ensure lift mechanism all works smoothly and is adjusted.
Have a good vacuum actuator
The wiper door shutoff valve can be an issue. Most of the reproduction items don’t work properly. There is one that does work and Alan71 put me onto that. Custom made and tested for NCRS owners who want to pass all tests. Was not cheap. Would need to check my receipts to find who sells.
Adjust all the switches etc.
Oh and ensure your vacuum system is all working 100%, and with modern relays that means possibly adding a vacuum restrictor to slow down vacuum build up at start etc.
And then check it each year to ensure it keeps working ok and no hoses come loose etc.
Thank you. That's a solid and comprehensive answer. It also establishes why the system is so problematic. I can make all the adjustments and checks, but what I cannot control is the quality of parts that are now available,....and even how long quality parts will work. If I have to replace the shutoff valve constantly.....that is not a solution I will tolerate. A mechanical alternative works every time. I was not aware of this issue with vacuum buildup. I also was NOT planning to use the very large steel reservoir that was originally installed in the 69. It has cracks...and its just too big, and impossible to remove once car is built. I was either not going to use ANY reservoir, or use a smaller later model type reservoir. If the only purpose of these reservoirs are to allow you to close or open the headlights with the engine OFF........its a stupid idea. I can simply open or close them while the engine is running....duh........or just push them mechanically up or down, which takes 2 seconds.
If you are not seeing a theme with me,.....I find some of the stuff engineeed into this car to be a bunch of silly nonsense, with no practical purpose on a car driven in fair weather,....even at my yearly 5000-6000 miles a year. I have used the windshield wipers ONE time on my 77 over the 25,000 miles I drove it. I have driven at night about five times over 25,000 miles. And I sure as hell don't need some fiberoptic indicator lights on the console to WARN me that one of my side marker lights are not working. I am just a much more practical person.....and not willing to deal with alot of complexity for the sake of irrelevant functionality. The lack of quality parts only makes it worse.
I bought an NOS vacuum shutoff valve for the heater system because I heard the reproduction ones fail all the time. I then had nothing but problems with clicking / popping / snapping noises in the cooling system ONLY when heat was selected on. After extensive troubleshooting, documented on a thread here, I believe that I was having intermittent vacuum signals going to this NOS shutoff valve (for unknown reasons)....or the NOS shutoff valve was failing intermittently. So.....problem with NOS stuff, with "rubber" components, is that the rubber is now OLD. Can't buy good repro stuff,...and can't use old NOS stuff. So.......when the 406 goes back into the car, I with either just bypass the heater system again and just not have heat OR, I will just plumb in a hardware store valve like so many have. When I need heat....open the hood, turn the valve,...and when I don't need heat, open the hood and turn the valve. Works every time.....simple.
In the end, I may just eliminate ALL the vacuum controlled systems in the car, simply because of the above. And I don't need the systems to work at the flick of a switch ENOUGH to install a bunch of electrical alternatives. More money, new problems,....and just modernizing a classic car that's character and attraction is NOT being modern.
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Jul 14, 2022 at 06:25 AM.
Good points, it has been a couple of years since I got it all working ok and i have used my wipers once….they worked perfectly and I know my wiper door and headlights don’t ever open or pop at start stop etc….was the effort worth it….. for me yes, I overcame the technology and system…
As i said get the correct quality actuator and relay and it will work well. (They are both rebuilt by guys on the NCRS forums who care about operational testing)
the thing about the modern repro relays is they often cant stand fast vacuum build and tend to pop at startup so slow vacuum build with restrictor in the line helps fix that….
Thank you very much for that information.......if you find that NCRS contact who rebuilds them. I would like to have it on file if I were to decide to do that.
Windshield Wiper Door Discussion
