BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,235
Likes: 898
From: Myrtle Beach SC
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (gq82)
I don't know that I would refer to the three as the triple crown but I believe if your objective is to achieve the best each organization has to offer...your pursuit with NCRS ought to include the Duvtov. It includes a performance verification that the car not only looks as good as it did when it rolled out of ST Louis/BG but also operates as it did in 82.
It our pursuit of the gold...let's not forget functionality!
It our pursuit of the gold...let's not forget functionality!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,235
Likes: 898
From: Myrtle Beach SC
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (GREGG-73)
Gregg:
Points well taken but NCRS does not use B'Gold as its benchmark. Our 78 team leader is a Gold judge and over the years we've had conversations and each organization is distinctive in its approach.
I guess the bottom line is...one could achieve a B'Gold but not muster up to NCRS. But it sounds like an NCRS Duntov car (McClellan for 73s) without dirt...would!
Points well taken but NCRS does not use B'Gold as its benchmark. Our 78 team leader is a Gold judge and over the years we've had conversations and each organization is distinctive in its approach.
I guess the bottom line is...one could achieve a B'Gold but not muster up to NCRS. But it sounds like an NCRS Duntov car (McClellan for 73s) without dirt...would!
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 4,930
Likes: 11
From: AnyTown NJ
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (hunt4cleanair)
The term Triple Crown refers to these 3 awards(I didn't make it up). As far as the Duntov is concerned I feel an orginal car rather than a restored car has the best chance. In any case it's the hardest award to obtain and I don't think my nerves could take it. Check this link on FCR http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=456415
I don't know that I would refer to the three as the triple crown but I believe if your objective is to achieve the best each organization has to offer...your pursuit with NCRS ought to include the Duvtov. It includes a performance verification that the car not only looks as good as it did when it rolled out of ST Louis/BG but also operates as it did in 82.
It our pursuit of the gold...let's not forget functionality!
It our pursuit of the gold...let's not forget functionality!
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 502
Likes: 1
From: Georgia
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (gq82)
I've done Bloomington for both Gold Judging with my L88, my L89 and friend's L71 and Survivor (with a friend's L88). I've also done NCRS Duntov with friend's L71 and PV'd my L88, but got worn out and quit the process before going on to Duntov with it.
Although both have their highs and lows, my preference has to go to NCRS. There's no question in my mind that Bloomington is a commercial enterprise with $$$$'s as the primary focus, however they have some excellent details to their program, Special Collection being one example. I think the multiple changes in ownership enforces this opinion. I personally found the Bloomington judging format to be every bit as rigorous as the NCRS. I do think there are probably more politics at Bloomington and more of a possiblility for a rookie judging mistake with NCRS, although I've been told by several credible sources recently that the rookie judge situation has drastically improved in the last several years.
As far as the rookie judging thing, since somebody else brought it up, my experience has been that the judging mistakes more commonly penalize the car, rather than letting incorrect components or condition slide by.
Although both have their highs and lows, my preference has to go to NCRS. There's no question in my mind that Bloomington is a commercial enterprise with $$$$'s as the primary focus, however they have some excellent details to their program, Special Collection being one example. I think the multiple changes in ownership enforces this opinion. I personally found the Bloomington judging format to be every bit as rigorous as the NCRS. I do think there are probably more politics at Bloomington and more of a possiblility for a rookie judging mistake with NCRS, although I've been told by several credible sources recently that the rookie judge situation has drastically improved in the last several years.
As far as the rookie judging thing, since somebody else brought it up, my experience has been that the judging mistakes more commonly penalize the car, rather than letting incorrect components or condition slide by.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 26,545
Likes: 46
From: Huntersville NC
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (hunt4cleanair)
Does it not bother anyone that Bloomington is all about the commercialism and Corvette the object.
Are most of the Bloomington judges also NCRS judges? They don't seem to have a problem with one organization vs the other. As for the NCRS regionals vs national, I had the pleasure of observer judging at the NJ regional, and did the same at the national.... with the same judges! So at least in my limited sample I know the judging was just as good at the regional as the national :) MJ
[Modified by MNJack, 8:59 PM 1/8/2003]
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 502
Likes: 1
From: Georgia
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (MNJack)
Unless things have changed with the NCRS recently, and I don't think they have, it's fair to assume a reasonably high level of judging expertise at a Regional meet. It is true that some Chapter meets have struggled in the past to have enough experienced judges to go around. The pecking order, in terms of NCRS meets is: National, Regional, Chapter.
I'm sure that there are a number of judges who judge both NCRS and NCCB (National Corvette Certification Board, which is Bloomington)
I'm sure that there are a number of judges who judge both NCRS and NCCB (National Corvette Certification Board, which is Bloomington)
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 21,440
Likes: 459
From: Massillon,Ohio USA
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Cruise-In VI Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (Solidlifters)
Great discussion :yesnod: I will be attending Bloomington again this year and I really do enjoy that show. The amount of Corvettes, the parts and people to chat with is just unbelievable, wish it would last for than three days!!!
Back to the subject of judging, almost all of your "NCRS Regional" judges pretty much travel around the country judging at like 5-7 Regionals a year. They are your most experienced judges, therefore they too are pretty much the same ones judging at the NCRS Nationals.
There also is small perks or difference in judging between the two(Bloomington & NCRS), and I know I don't know them all-I've only "Survivored" my '74 in '94 and my '80 in 2001. I know my cars would not meet the high condition(i.e. super low mile original or newer restoration)for Bloomington, so I've just gone "Survivor". One difference I am aware of Bloomington you have to have a window sticker or it's like a deduct of 75 points if you don't.
Back to the subject of judging, almost all of your "NCRS Regional" judges pretty much travel around the country judging at like 5-7 Regionals a year. They are your most experienced judges, therefore they too are pretty much the same ones judging at the NCRS Nationals.
There also is small perks or difference in judging between the two(Bloomington & NCRS), and I know I don't know them all-I've only "Survivored" my '74 in '94 and my '80 in 2001. I know my cars would not meet the high condition(i.e. super low mile original or newer restoration)for Bloomington, so I've just gone "Survivor". One difference I am aware of Bloomington you have to have a window sticker or it's like a deduct of 75 points if you don't.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Likes: 1
From: JOPPA MD
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (Paul Borowski)
PAUL,
Does it have to be a original window sticker? Do reproductions count for you or against you? Sorry I have to ask this seemingly stupid question. I have not received my paper work yet, and my car is restored. I also am not even considering a Gold.
GREGG-73 :thumbs:
Does it have to be a original window sticker? Do reproductions count for you or against you? Sorry I have to ask this seemingly stupid question. I have not received my paper work yet, and my car is restored. I also am not even considering a Gold.
GREGG-73 :thumbs:
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Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 21,440
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From: Massillon,Ohio USA
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Cruise-In VI Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (GREGG-73)
PAUL,
Does it have to be a original window sticker? Do reproductions count for you or against you? Sorry I have to ask this seemingly stupid question. I have not received my paper work yet, and my car is restored. I also am not even considering a Gold.
GREGG-73 :thumbs:
Does it have to be a original window sticker? Do reproductions count for you or against you? Sorry I have to ask this seemingly stupid question. I have not received my paper work yet, and my car is restored. I also am not even considering a Gold.
GREGG-73 :thumbs:
Your car being restored will "have to go for the Gold" as this class is the class you'd be in-you cannot go for "Survivor" with a restored car. I believe if the car scores 95% or higher, it is Gold, 90-94% a "Silver Certificate", 85-89% a "Bronze Certificate", less than 84=participant.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Likes: 1
From: JOPPA MD
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (Paul Borowski)
HOT DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!, NOW I AM REALLY EXCITED, NO KIDDING, NO BULL!
I'LL TAKE WHAT I CAN GET!
GREGG-73 :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :thumbs:
I'LL TAKE WHAT I CAN GET!
GREGG-73 :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :thumbs:
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 26,545
Likes: 46
From: Huntersville NC
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (Paul Borowski)
you have the car judged and lose the points OR attend their class on Thurs "How To Get A Bloomington Gold"(more$$$$$$)OR talk to someone who has had THEIR car judged and lost the points when they did'nt know :lol:
NCRS, on the other hand, can be approached as a learning experience. Althogh I bet few people go unprepared, you can have your car judged with no preperation at all. For the small fee you can have your car judged, use the feedback to make changes, then head for the next meet (not wait a full year and pay another $500!!!!! :eek: ) MJ
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Massillon,Ohio USA
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (MNJack)
you have the car judged and lose the points OR attend their class on Thurs "How To Get A Bloomington Gold"(more$$$$$$)OR talk to someone who has had THEIR car judged and lost the points when they did'nt know :lol:
I think I would be rather upset if I paid upwards of $500 to have my car judged and didnt get the award because I was missing a $25 repro window sticker that nobody told me I needed!!! :mad ***(not wait a full year and pay another $500!!!!! :eek: ) MJ
I think I would be rather upset if I paid upwards of $500 to have my car judged and didnt get the award because I was missing a $25 repro window sticker that nobody told me I needed!!! :mad ***(not wait a full year and pay another $500!!!!! :eek: ) MJ
Still, you can't pay for this kinda entertainment :lol: :lurk:
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 388
Likes: 1
From: Bridgeport CT
Re: BLOOMINGTON CERTIFICATION (MNJack)
Mark,
I can do better than that and offer a faster appraisal at a much greater value. Honestly after attending over 500 Corvette conventions, events, swaps, shows, the absolute vast majority Corvette exclusive - including 20 plus Bloomington’s, every Corvette Carlisle, Hershey, Pomona, Knoxville, Houston, Chicago, McDorman’s, Bowling Green, Orlando and National Camel Rider Society events far and wide – I can judge a Corvette and in 15 minutes. And with my utter frank sincerity, will tell you if it’s a Corvette or a smoking turd or is it a terd. :D And I don’t even charge a fee. :D No reservation required.
Geoffrey Coenen
NCRS #2473
NCM Lifetime #105
Precision Valley Corvette Museum Charter Member #20 (I think)
Vettehead #18-1
Retired #1 56, 63, 67, 68, 68, 69, 75, 99 and I want more! :D
I can do better than that and offer a faster appraisal at a much greater value. Honestly after attending over 500 Corvette conventions, events, swaps, shows, the absolute vast majority Corvette exclusive - including 20 plus Bloomington’s, every Corvette Carlisle, Hershey, Pomona, Knoxville, Houston, Chicago, McDorman’s, Bowling Green, Orlando and National Camel Rider Society events far and wide – I can judge a Corvette and in 15 minutes. And with my utter frank sincerity, will tell you if it’s a Corvette or a smoking turd or is it a terd. :D And I don’t even charge a fee. :D No reservation required.
Geoffrey Coenen
NCRS #2473
NCM Lifetime #105
Precision Valley Corvette Museum Charter Member #20 (I think)
Vettehead #18-1
Retired #1 56, 63, 67, 68, 68, 69, 75, 99 and I want more! :D
