I need help.....not vette related......help......
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
I need help.....not vette related......help......
bought a junker, 87 Pontiac Sunbird 4 cyl 2.0 liter. Car starts and runs for about a minute then shuts down, won't restart for about 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, it starts, runs for a minute, then shuts down again, and the same old thing after 5 minutes.
I've replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, battery, alternator checks out. I've replaced the fuel pump relay, but this is a wierd unit, on a bracket, there are two identical relays...I've identified the fuel pump relay, but have no clue where the other relay is used, or it's function. The coil and ignition module check out fine....thanks to Auto Zone. Anyone ever encounter this situation?
The car ran good for two weeks then the intermittent stopages. I would be driving along and the motor would shut off. Pull off to the side, wait a few minutes, restart and be on my way. Hate to get rid of this junk, after I've dumped all those bucks and new tires.
[Modified by GDaina, 12:40 PM 1/28/2003]
I've replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, battery, alternator checks out. I've replaced the fuel pump relay, but this is a wierd unit, on a bracket, there are two identical relays...I've identified the fuel pump relay, but have no clue where the other relay is used, or it's function. The coil and ignition module check out fine....thanks to Auto Zone. Anyone ever encounter this situation?
The car ran good for two weeks then the intermittent stopages. I would be driving along and the motor would shut off. Pull off to the side, wait a few minutes, restart and be on my way. Hate to get rid of this junk, after I've dumped all those bucks and new tires.
[Modified by GDaina, 12:40 PM 1/28/2003]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Was New Orleans but swam to Baton Rouge LA
Cruise-In IX Veteran
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (GDaina)
What about the injectors? After you start it if you floor it and cycle the injectors will it run longer? I have seen a problem like that due to injectors not cycling properly.
Mark B.
Mark B.
Le Mans Master
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From: Brazos TX
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (GDaina)
Plugged fuel filter or vent? What does the fuel pressure do during all of this? I think that would be a good start.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (Sigforty)
Sorry, I should have mentioned its a TBI, and a new filter was installed with the pump.
[Modified by GDaina, 12:36 PM 1/28/2003]
[Modified by GDaina, 12:36 PM 1/28/2003]
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,660
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From: South Central Louisiana
St. Jude Contributor
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (Sigforty)
When i quits on you, turn ign sw off then back on. Do you hear the fuel pump cycle???? Are you getting fire?? Does it have a distributor if some sort with a coil or a coil for each plug??
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,651
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From: Holly MI
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (GDaina)
I just read an article about a similar problem. Are all of the safety and security items that came with the car hooked up? Mnay engine computers will shut down the car if it thinks the air bags or other safety items are disconnected. I'm don't know what safety items that car has, but this could be a possibility. Are you getting any check lights when the car stalls?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (71,454,4spd)
yea, the coil and the ignition module check out, had them tested at Auto Zone. I have spark....will fire with starting fluid, right after it shuts down, but won't fire on its own, have to wait 5 minutes.
What is apparent, somehow the fuel is shut off when the car runs for about a minute, and won't restart until 5 minutes have elapsed....I have new oil, filter.
What is apparent, somehow the fuel is shut off when the car runs for about a minute, and won't restart until 5 minutes have elapsed....I have new oil, filter.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
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From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (bb69)
i do get a check lite, code 45, OS2 sensor, but that wouldn't be the cause for the car to shut down. There are not airbags in this thing
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Massapequa Park NY
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (GDaina)
Hmmmm - don't remember the ignition setup - I think a GM HEI distributor. When the engine dies do you have spark? Have the ignition module tested - they tend to fail suddenly when hot.
Had a similar problem on a buddies 79 Trans -Am many years ago. Could drive the car all day arround town, but get on the highway and after an hour the engine would backfire through the carb, blow the hood scoop off and not start untill everything cooled down. Turned out to be a bad module.
Had a similar problem on a buddies 79 Trans -Am many years ago. Could drive the car all day arround town, but get on the highway and after an hour the engine would backfire through the carb, blow the hood scoop off and not start untill everything cooled down. Turned out to be a bad module.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 998
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From: Frisco TX
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (70BBvert)
was the car in an accident?
On some cars, there are fuel shutoff switches that will trip if there is an accident so that the gas does not keep flowing (and possibly fueling a fire).
The switch on some cars is in the trunk...
On some cars, there are fuel shutoff switches that will trip if there is an accident so that the gas does not keep flowing (and possibly fueling a fire).
The switch on some cars is in the trunk...
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Marietta Ga.
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (GDaina)
What I do in a case like this is to call the dealership and ask the service advisor if he knows what could cause it to happen. 6 out of 10 times they tell are give me a good clue. This may help if it's a common problem with the model.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,635
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From: Union Ontario
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (72GACRZR)
I'd really check out the relays again..... also check the wires to the fuel pump for continuity before starting it and after it quits. I would have said fuel filt er originally but since you changed it already it should be fine.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 26,545
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From: Huntersville NC
Sorry George, wish I could help! I just went thru a surprisingly similar problem with my 92 Volvo 740 wagon. Except our stalling was very intermittent.... it could go a week without stalling, but then would stall while running, and like yours, would need a short rest before restarting and then would run fine. Very annoying was my local Volvo Dealer was no help!! :mad I got great help at http://www.brickboard.com . (<= this is a Volvo board, so no help for you) Replaced a fuel pump relay ($20) and it has been fine ever since.
So based on my experience.... :lol: if you can find some place online where the 87 pontiac experts hang out... that would be your best bet!! :) The dealer is a possibility, but unfortunately is hit-or-miss. :) MJ
[Modified by MNJack, 1:37 PM 1/28/2003]
So based on my experience.... :lol: if you can find some place online where the 87 pontiac experts hang out... that would be your best bet!! :) The dealer is a possibility, but unfortunately is hit-or-miss. :) MJ
[Modified by MNJack, 1:37 PM 1/28/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,183
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From: Des Moines Iowa
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (GDaina)
You just described pretty much same situation as experienced by my mother in law with her 1990 Honda Civic, and problem ended up being bad fuel pump relay which would kick off after getting warm, and then kick back in after cooling off a little bit.
On the other hand, similar problem with my son's 1989 Chevy Beretta, 2.8 V6 turned out to be a couple of bad fuel injectors!!!!!
These types of problems are a real bitch to identify / diagnos. They each caused me a bunch of headaches before I got them figured out.
On the other hand, similar problem with my son's 1989 Chevy Beretta, 2.8 V6 turned out to be a couple of bad fuel injectors!!!!!
These types of problems are a real bitch to identify / diagnos. They each caused me a bunch of headaches before I got them figured out.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,908
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From: Manassas, VA, USA
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (GDaina)
Argh! I hate fuel system related problems - they can be a bee-atch to diagnose.
Try this: clean the throttle body (i.e., the intake part).
If it's dirty, the intake air control can get fooled, and adjust itself to the point that it kills the engine after a few minutes.
Try this: clean the throttle body (i.e., the intake part).
If it's dirty, the intake air control can get fooled, and adjust itself to the point that it kills the engine after a few minutes.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
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From: Plano TX
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (lyonsh)
Run a wire directly from the fuel pump to the battery and see if it does it. If it doesn't, you know the problem is in the wiring, relay or ECM. If the pump still won't run it's the pump.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,468
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From: Kirkland WA
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (zwede)
There is a similar problem with mid-80's mustangs, and the problem is that the ignition module would fail after getting HOT. So, it would test fine, say, just running, but on the freeway when the engine would get hot the module would fail.
I can't imagine those modules are that expensive, so it might be worth replacing anyway.
I can't imagine those modules are that expensive, so it might be worth replacing anyway.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (Corellian Corvette)
Had a friend go through a similar problem with his GM pickup and it turned out to be a bad ground to the fuel pump. He had some clown replace the whole fuel pump and it kept doing it so he ended up taken the ground wire off the frame connection, cleaning it and has had no problems since.
Just one more thing to check. :)
Just one more thing to check. :)
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
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From: Orange Park Florida
Re: I need help.....not vette related......help...... (GDaina)
GDaina, well firing immediately tells me i'ts the fuel that's bad....SO, the thing to do is fix a pressure gauge to the fule line, and leave it in the windshield area outside...so when it dies....you know the fuel pressure immediately...
another thing is to listen for the pump.....another thing is when you crank and it WILL NOT RUN.....look down the F Injector stack and see if the thing is pissing fuel....you can SEE the fuel very clearly....if i'ts not....you gotta take a scope or meter to the injector to see if it's firing.....OR you can measure the injector coil to see if it's got voltage on BOTH sides of it....if not, you got a computer problem...or wiring connection.....
hard to do on side or road, I know....but if all else fails....that's where you are at.....been there done that when DPFI first came out in late 70's....fought my 810 Datsun wagon to a victory.....
GENE
another thing is to listen for the pump.....another thing is when you crank and it WILL NOT RUN.....look down the F Injector stack and see if the thing is pissing fuel....you can SEE the fuel very clearly....if i'ts not....you gotta take a scope or meter to the injector to see if it's firing.....OR you can measure the injector coil to see if it's got voltage on BOTH sides of it....if not, you got a computer problem...or wiring connection.....
hard to do on side or road, I know....but if all else fails....that's where you are at.....been there done that when DPFI first came out in late 70's....fought my 810 Datsun wagon to a victory.....
GENE