Which heads?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 136
Likes: 28
From: Liberty Island
Which heads?
I have been offered two different heads for my car and trying to pick the right setup.
Current Specs:
1980 4 speed 3:08 rear gear
1977 Truck 350 stock long block low miles
Edl performer intake
Q -jet
Hooker side pipes
The car is my summer daily driver. I would like to add a Cam and better heads but keep the stock short block. Cam i am pretty open on but realize my compression is on the lower side. i would like it to have a little chop if possible and be in the 300-350 (flywheel) HP range.
Now the heads i have access too:
#1. A set of Bow tie performance Phase 2 heads. 184 cc intake runners, 2.02/1.6 valves, 64cc. Set up with roller cam springs.Angle plugs.
#2. World products Sportsman 2. Light port work, 200cc intake runners, 2.02 1.6 valves 64cc
which heads would you recommend for my stock short block? I would like to keep my current headers, intake and carb. I understand that better bottom end parts would make much better use of either head but have other priorities at this time and am just looking for a little more pep from my 80.
thanks for any feed back!
Current Specs:
1980 4 speed 3:08 rear gear
1977 Truck 350 stock long block low miles
Edl performer intake
Q -jet
Hooker side pipes
The car is my summer daily driver. I would like to add a Cam and better heads but keep the stock short block. Cam i am pretty open on but realize my compression is on the lower side. i would like it to have a little chop if possible and be in the 300-350 (flywheel) HP range.
Now the heads i have access too:
#1. A set of Bow tie performance Phase 2 heads. 184 cc intake runners, 2.02/1.6 valves, 64cc. Set up with roller cam springs.Angle plugs.
#2. World products Sportsman 2. Light port work, 200cc intake runners, 2.02 1.6 valves 64cc
which heads would you recommend for my stock short block? I would like to keep my current headers, intake and carb. I understand that better bottom end parts would make much better use of either head but have other priorities at this time and am just looking for a little more pep from my 80.
thanks for any feed back!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,710
Likes: 2,156
From: Minnesota
Assuming they both have the correct mounting patterns for your intake and accessories I would go with the 184cc heads. They will be better suited for a daily driving type activities. I’m not sure what springs for a roller cam are, but I would try to find the specs on them to determine if the camshaft you select would work for them. Furthermore I would find out for sure what kind of deck height and piston dish/dome you’re dealing with to truly find out your compression ratio.
300-350 horsepower should be no problem with either one though.
300-350 horsepower should be no problem with either one though.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 136
Likes: 28
From: Liberty Island
Thanks for the replys.
i am told the phase 2 heads were on a 383 with a solid roller cam around 600 lift?? It was a pretty built motor with dual quads and a 671. If the springs have the right rate i would love to go retro roller cam and reuse them if possible. They do have the correct acc holes and the intake pattern is gen 1 sbc with 6 same angle bolts be head on intake side.
the headers are a big concern for me…. Some on here say they fit “better then with straight plugs”. Others say they had to run acell short plugs. Trying to find a member with the exact same combo to confirm.
thanks for the replys!!
i am told the phase 2 heads were on a 383 with a solid roller cam around 600 lift?? It was a pretty built motor with dual quads and a 671. If the springs have the right rate i would love to go retro roller cam and reuse them if possible. They do have the correct acc holes and the intake pattern is gen 1 sbc with 6 same angle bolts be head on intake side.
the headers are a big concern for me…. Some on here say they fit “better then with straight plugs”. Others say they had to run acell short plugs. Trying to find a member with the exact same combo to confirm.
thanks for the replys!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,810
From: Cool Northern Michigan
I have no idea what the valve springs are rated at when they are open.
But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the engine those heads came from, (2 four-barrels sitting on a blower) is not a street cruiser.
Likely those heads have massive amount of spring pressure. That will beat the valve seats to death at cruising speed / RPMs.
A wise man would swap the springs out for something more realistic unless your Vette is for strip only.
Think, longevity valvetrain.
But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the engine those heads came from, (2 four-barrels sitting on a blower) is not a street cruiser.
Likely those heads have massive amount of spring pressure. That will beat the valve seats to death at cruising speed / RPMs.
A wise man would swap the springs out for something more realistic unless your Vette is for strip only.
Think, longevity valvetrain.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Aug 13, 2024 at 08:34 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 136
Likes: 28
From: Liberty Island
Yeah mine is a daily driver. I want to go roller but i think i am going to end up flat tap cam due to cost. You’re right on the springs.
if i can confirm these heads will work with my headers i think they will be the ticket.. honestly probably more head then i will need .
thanks for the input.
if i can confirm these heads will work with my headers i think they will be the ticket.. honestly probably more head then i will need .
thanks for the input.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11,949
Likes: 4,507
From: Virginia
Are these heads free?
Consider that for the same price as a new Holley carburetor, or a single aftermarket head, you can buy a complete, running, LS-based engine, that has better flowing aluminum heads, a roller cam, no combustion gas or coolant in the intake, and a host of other improvements made over 40 years of development. And you get EFI and coil on plug ignition for free!
There's a bit more to it, but if you see this as the first mod in a long line of mods, you might come out ahead with a complete swap.
Consider that for the same price as a new Holley carburetor, or a single aftermarket head, you can buy a complete, running, LS-based engine, that has better flowing aluminum heads, a roller cam, no combustion gas or coolant in the intake, and a host of other improvements made over 40 years of development. And you get EFI and coil on plug ignition for free!
There's a bit more to it, but if you see this as the first mod in a long line of mods, you might come out ahead with a complete swap.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,483
Likes: 1,823
From: McCloud CA
C2 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
I've said it on here many times Skip White Performance. He sells cheap heads that are almost as good as AFRs. He also sells Head and cam proven combos. Check them out before you buy anything.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
I had run a pair of the sportsmans on a 383, they were ported and polished... and they kicked ***.... when i went 427, my son had the 383 rebuilt and kept the heds,,, cuz... they kicked ***... :-)
sportsman vote here..
im now running AFR 220 competition ported to 7K on my 427... 3rd gear sustained burn outs:-)
sportsman vote here..
im now running AFR 220 competition ported to 7K on my 427... 3rd gear sustained burn outs:-)
Is my vette stock?? HAHA
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 20,209
Likes: 9,348
From: Im not allowed to tell you
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
2019 C3 of Year Winner (performance mods)
2016 C3 of Year Finalist
the 180 cc intake ports would be perfect for the path you want top take
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 136
Likes: 28
From: Liberty Island
Thanks for the awesome replies guys!!
No interest in LS for this car. I Know they make a lot of power and the bang for buck is unreal and you can fit a carb but i just have no interest in an engine conversion at this time. I always thought a 8.1 swap would be a cool challenge but al my other vehicles have engine conversions ( gas to diesel, buick powered jeep etc..) and i want to keep the vette gen 1 sbc.
Valve seals will be replaced before install. One of the reasons i want to do heads is because my current stock heads have leaky valve seals.
unlike most i am not chasing power i just want a good runner that makes the power an early C3 SBC did. If i was going all out i would start from the crank up and build a 383 / 406. But that would be a whole engine build not a heads and cam swap.
i have looked at skip white, some really good combos, also looked at AFR and TF DH175’s and of course vortec heads but am looking to be a bit milder with this engine and these heads are under 300.
again thanks for the input guys and keep the comments coming.
No interest in LS for this car. I Know they make a lot of power and the bang for buck is unreal and you can fit a carb but i just have no interest in an engine conversion at this time. I always thought a 8.1 swap would be a cool challenge but al my other vehicles have engine conversions ( gas to diesel, buick powered jeep etc..) and i want to keep the vette gen 1 sbc.
Valve seals will be replaced before install. One of the reasons i want to do heads is because my current stock heads have leaky valve seals.
unlike most i am not chasing power i just want a good runner that makes the power an early C3 SBC did. If i was going all out i would start from the crank up and build a 383 / 406. But that would be a whole engine build not a heads and cam swap.
i have looked at skip white, some really good combos, also looked at AFR and TF DH175’s and of course vortec heads but am looking to be a bit milder with this engine and these heads are under 300.
again thanks for the input guys and keep the comments coming.
Is my vette stock?? HAHA
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 20,209
Likes: 9,348
From: Im not allowed to tell you
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
2019 C3 of Year Winner (performance mods)
2016 C3 of Year Finalist
The only benefit of an LS over a later gen2 is it has really good factory heads... both have rollers...That being said you can put a retro roller in a gen 1. I won't get into available aluminum blocks because buy the time you buy, bore and resleeve the LS aluminum block you are into it the same as a aluminum aftermarket small block. LS motors aren't magical...its just an air pump like any other motor...if you already own the small block just rebuild it...no one accounts the cost of buying an LS in their budgets, or the ridiculous cost of adapters and headers. Then the cost of the new computer or the returned of the original one. Anyone who says it's cheap is a liar. Their is no such thing as building a motor with quality parts that will last. I can build a Chinese motor dirt cheap. It won't last a month the way I drive
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,936
Likes: 848
From: melbourne florida
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I recommend another approach, build your car so it runs good instead of how it sounds.
My car sounds good but can back up how it sounds. there is a difference.compression,head flow camshaft gearing convertor are just some of things you need for a more aggressive cam.
My car sounds good but can back up how it sounds. there is a difference.compression,head flow camshaft gearing convertor are just some of things you need for a more aggressive cam.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 136
Likes: 28
From: Liberty Island
this is a good point. Right now its bark is way worse then its bite with the side pipes. No converter as it is a 4 speed. Less money spent on heads means 3:55 or 3:73 gears.
i need to do valve stem seals and would like to step from the stock cam. This seems like the perfect time to swap out the smog heads with something a little better for not much cost. I am not looking to touch the short block whic i realize kills efficiency and does not maximize my 350’s power potential.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 1,316
From: Fleming Island, FL
195cc heads are fine for the street if your camshaft is on the conservative side. Case in point, I have a Blueprint 350 cruiser engine in my Vette currently. The heads are 195cc however the camshaft is 202/212 duration@.050", 115 LSA. It idles smooth and I can ran down to 1000RPM's in 5th (3.31's and .68 OD) and still accelerate with no fuss. Not that one should be doing that but you get the idea.
Why I no longer have the TPI/megasquirt, well that's a whole another story.
Why I no longer have the TPI/megasquirt, well that's a whole another story.