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Another day another issue i could use your help with
I've been trying do diagnose an issue where sometimes my start clicks once and no start. After a few tries it starts normally. I took out the inspection cover today and surprise surprise. It seems like the starter is hitting the flywheel sometimes Any clues on what might be causing this? While diagnosing I also realized that my voltage drop while cranking doesn't look too good...any help would be appreciated!
Its not so much the volts that crank. Its the Amps that crank. Such as Cold Cranking Amps CCA.
I can't see anything abnormal on the bendex to flywheel contact.
But I suspect you have a suspicious poor GRD somewhere.
Either, under the battery box.
Or the GRD from block to starter, or frame to starter.
Or the NEG cable / post on the battery itself.
Shim the starter to prevent the bendix gear from hitting the flywheel.
Yep this is the issue. your should be able to slip an 1/8" drill or allen wrench between the flexplate teeth and the bedix shaft. I suspect you cannot in this case and that is why it's not engaging every time.
There are very thin shims available to space the starter from the mounting point to achieve this distance. I ended up cutting my own from sheet metal.
Its not so much the volts that crank. Its the Amps that crank. Such as Cold Cranking Amps CCA.
I can't see anything abnormal on the bendex to flywheel contact.
But I suspect you have a suspicious poor GRD somewhere.
Either, under the battery box.
Or the GRD from block to starter, or frame to starter.
Or the NEG cable / post on the battery itself.
That was my initial thought but not only did I check them all I even made new cables with 1 gauge wire and the issue persisted
Originally Posted by MelWff
Shim the starter to prevent the bendix gear from hitting the flywheel.
Originally Posted by REELAV8R
Yep this is the issue. your should be able to slip an 1/8" drill or allen wrench between the flexplate teeth and the bedix shaft. I suspect you cannot in this case and that is why it's not engaging every time.
There are very thin shims available to space the starter from the mounting point to achieve this distance. I ended up cutting my own from sheet metal.
Bolts?
Which reminds me.
Brand new starters come with brand new "starter bolts" (or should)
What makes them special is not the diameter, the thread pitch or the length.
But rather the shank is knurled. That knurling holds the starter in place.
If someone put regular bolts in there, your starter is moving slightly.
No shims in the world are going to help with that bubba issue.
When your shims arrive, you can verify the bolts shank.
Thanks folks for all your input! I'd like to provide an update
I got some shims and while it's the first time I'm tinkering with this stuff I don't think that's gonna fix it - unless I'm completely misinterpreting what I'm seeing i'd think it's almost as If I had to had the starter machined a bit to remove material to dial this in if I were to keep it.
When I introduce shims, the clearance just keeps increasing. Without any shims, I can fit the paper clip just fine (it's really not very tight even then)
I'm thinking of just buying a Powermaster 9612 but would love to hear your thoughts
The shim goes under one bolt hole or the other. Seldom both.
No starter pad should need to be machined. Look elsewhere.
Just one other thought, I have no knowledge of flywheels except there are two different ones for SBC. The difference being the number of teeth.
Will all SBC starters fit both flywheels? I don't know.
For what its worth, I went with the Power-Master, love it.
But I have no part number.
The shim goes under one bolt hole or the other. Seldom both.
No starter pad should need to be machined. Look elsewhere.
Just one other thought, I have no knowledge of flywheels except there are two different ones for SBC. The difference being the number of teeth.
Will all SBC starters fit both flywheels? I don't know.
For what its worth, I went with the Power-Master, love it.
But I have no part number.
I have a 168T flywheel, same as what it was originally in the car despite this being a new engine
I tried offsetting with 2 shims on one side and 1 on the other but didn't have much luck either...can't remember if i tried no shim one side, thin shim on the other but maybe I'll try that next
In your photos, the no shims looks too close and the 1/32" shims photo looks to far. Somewhere in between those two. Are you using multiple shims or just one and measure then two and measure, etc? 1/8* drill or Allen wrench will tell the story. It's all I used and works perfect.
Also understand that until the bendix gear fully engages that the solenoid will not engaged the starter. Once it's fully engaged then the starter cranks, expect to see a voltage drop. If it's excessive it would indicate a weakening battery. Judging by the speed in which the starter is turning I would not suspect you have a weak battery yet.
In your photos, the no shims looks too close and the 1/32" shims photo looks to far. Somewhere in between those two. Are you using multiple shims or just one and measure then two and measure, etc? 1/8* drill or Allen wrench will tell the story. It's all I used and works perfect.
Also understand that until the bendix gear fully engages that the solenoid will not engaged the starter. Once it's fully engaged then the starter cranks, expect to see a voltage drop. If it's excessive it would indicate a weakening battery. Judging by the speed in which the starter is turning I would not suspect you have a weak battery yet.
One at a time, I tried 1/64, 1/32, even 1mm. I thought the no shims was still too lose, I can slide the paper clip with little resistance. And I did try the 1/8 drill bit and it does go all the way but I don't believe the distance from the armature to the flywheel ***** is equal on both sides if that makes sense. So I thought I'd have to stack 2 shims on the passenger side but maybe I should try no shims drivers and maybe 1/64 passenger, don't think I've tried that
So, were there mandatory knurled starter bolts in place?
And curious. Do you have a starter front support bracket to the block?
Also, I see what appears to be dental floss?
H-m-m-m-m. Stuck to the teeth. Ironic.
Yes to the knurled starter bolts, no to the bracket
I don't think I ever had one. Should I have had it? Probably a moot point since I ordered the powermaster just now but didn't realize i was missing a bracket to be honest!
One at a time, I tried 1/64, 1/32, even 1mm. I thought the no shims was still too lose, I can slide the paper clip with little resistance. And I did try the 1/8 drill bit and it does go all the way but I don't believe the distance from the armature to the flywheel ***** is equal on both sides if that makes sense. So I thought I'd have to stack 2 shims on the passenger side but maybe I should try no shims drivers and maybe 1/64 passenger, don't think I've tried that
That may be the case.
I see that the starter you purchased is advertised as new. This means likely Chinese made components/castings. The tolerances may not be as tight as an OEM cast/manufactured starter. I don't normally buy reman parts, but given where "new" components may come from and/or the lack of QA on new parts recently I figured an OEM reman was a better bet for fitment.
Should I have had it? Probably a moot point since I ordered the powermaster just now but didn't realize i was missing a bracket to be honest!
Yes you should have one. One of the bolts that holds the back of the starter on is sticking out. That's where the support bracket attaches.
Starter hitting the flexplate (ocasionally)
