Has anyone successfully tucked the Cloyes Quick Button Two-Piece Timing Cover 9221 behind their short water pump (350 motors). Was any grinding or material removal required? Maybe water pump and crank pulley spacers?

Thank you,
Daniel

 

That is a pretty unique cover that allows adjustment of cam timing w/o dropping the pan, pulling harmonic balancer, etc.

Hey wait a minute. Do you race? Do you plan on making timing changes quite often? To me, that is a weekend warrior part.
Let's think about this. To make an adjustment, you still have to remove the fan belts, fan, drain coolant, remove water-pump, hoses, then upper portion of the timing cover.
Then Permatex some new W.P. gaskets, reinstall, fan, belts, apply tension, add coolant.

Is it really worth it? If the cam timing is adjusted differently and the outcome is worse than before . . . . ????

Rumor is, those 2 pc covers have clearance issues with the shorter W.P. back cover. Some posters mentioned they did have to grind on bolts and sometimes the casting itself.
Some posters tried the spacers between W.P. and block. It worked. But then all the pullies, PS, Alt & A/C have to be moved also.

Not trying to talk you out of buying that cover. But . . . . . .

 

Thank you! Actually I kinda was trying to be talked out of it as someone else was trying to talk me into it - as a superior alternative to the standard cam button.

 

Leave it to serious racers , for a street car it isn't worth it.
Besides dropping the oil pan to remove a regular cover really is not hard on a c3.

 

I have that cover, and yes, I had to grind on the back of the water pump to make the clearance. Doesn't fit without it.

 

Hello All - I normally hang out in the C1/C2 forum but when I did a Google search on the Cloyes cast aluminum timing cover, this thread popped up.
I'm building a 400 Smallblock for my 56 Nomad but will be using this Cloyes cover because of the Howards Hyd Roller Cam. My question to any of you using this cover
has to do with the pan gasket. I'm intending on using the Fel-Pro one-piece Blue pan gasket and it comes in two versions, depending on what oil pan you're using and
if it's the later deeper front half-moon (~2 3/8 height), they say you need the thicker version. Well, I've got the engine on the stand and let's just say the thicker gasket
makes the pan ride way high, and we're not talking about maybe a 1/16 inch gap that would normally be taken up by cinching down the pan bolts. The thin gasket (#09)
let's it all fit okay but not a whole bunch of 'crush' on the front timing cover arch. Here's an article from Speedway that talks about how to measure the front of the pan to determine
which gasket it needed but if you scroll down a bit, you can see the pics they posted on an engine with a cast aluminum timing cover and in the end, they went with the thin setup
as the pic showing the pan on top of the thicker one-piece pan gasket is way high. SBC Thick and Thin Oil Pan Gaskets - Which do I need?
Hoping one of you guys have some insight for me on this pan gasket issue.
Thanks,
Mike T - Prescott AZ

 

I've used that cover as well. I used a GM Aluminum water pump.
I took the bolts out of the cover and grinded them thinner. No issues after that.

 

Perhaps Neither amateur or pro racing.
Suggest this Stamped Steel cover with welded reinforcement bar for roller cam thrust. USA, fits behind pump No Grind And provides support for roller button thrust.
Ensure you select D-Style with Reinforcement from drop down

https://shop.bakerengineering.com/pr...k-timing-cover
Others sell Pro/Cam as well.

FYI Most entry-priced Howards and Comp roller cams are ground on a Cast Iron core. Neither H or C advertise that, but will disclose if you ask or know how to interpret their part numbers.
Suggest step up to a cam ground on a billet steel core; even a mild steel such as 5150 (Fact: 5150 is OE in OE GM roller motors). Both H & C offer billet cores.

You have the speedway diagram for Measuring pan in front & sizing pan gasket; use that.
It's Not simply a thicker or thinner gasket. Smaller dimension (OS34509T) fits older 2-pc rms pans, Most aftermarket 2-pc rms pans use the Newer & Larger dimension (OS34510T).
If you install wrong gasket it Will leak.

While pan's off to measure front "arch" ... suggest also measure pan depth from rails to bottom of sump; you'll need that to help set correct oil pump pickup depth.

*** another thing--- The speedway dimensions are correct, BUT their commentary about covers regarding either thin or thick are dead Wrong. AFAIK, All covers and their Lips/channels are Same Dimensions. Size differences are Only in the PAN and its "arch" dimensions; Not in covers' Lips/Channels..

 

My old 350 has that cover. I have an aluminum water pump (Edelbrock maybe). Replaced the bolts with button head screws. Zero issues.

 

Pump pickup has already been installed, based on measurements and...Playdoh against the bottom of the pan.
I knew about H and C using the cast cores up front when I inquired about fuel pump pushrods and cam gear compatibility.
Regarding the one-piece pan gasket issue, while the thin version lets the pan sit down better than the thick version,
I used a thin probe up front between pan lip and gasket at top/center with the pan just snugged down and the amount of 'squish' on that timing cover
section was less than I had hoped for. Not looking to start all over again with a different cam and cover when the issue at hand
is gasket sealing. I'll work with the pan on that thicker gasket and see how it turns out.
Thanks,
Mike T - Prescott AZ

 

Seems you already have OS34509T or OS34510T or Both.
Are you intending to be changing cam timing and/or camshafts with some regularity ?
Did you dry-fit the gasket, And then tighten it against its integral torque limiters ? Then assess fitment ?

 

Yes to both, I have the #09 and #10 Fel-Pro Gaskets on hand, tried them both dry, liked what I saw with the thin version over the thicker gasket but I found I could easily push a thin probe
between the front pan lip and the thin radiused gasket, I knew that was a leak waiting to happen. When I initially tried the thicker gasket (thicker up front due to pan differences) and knew that my
measurements indicated this was the gasket to use (2 3/8 height at center), I was put off by the 'gap-itis' I saw when the pan was laid on top. Just now I got out some longer 1/4 and 5/16 bolts and washers and
slowly worked the pan down onto the block, the gap closed up and that probe I used before was no longer going to be pushed easily between pan lip and gasket. Right now, I have it snugged down but not fully tightened
but feel a lot better about the sealing I'm getting with the thicker gasket.
To answer your other question, nah, I don't see me swapping cams in the future, so why did I buy that cover...mostly due to the center bolt/stop but not for ease of cam swapping.
Here's the before pic showing the gap up front and along the sides (same look both sides) and after snugging with longer bolts to get them started, gap is gone and no distortion in the pan to be seen.
Thanks,
Mike T - Prescott AZ

400 SBC - Thick 1-Pc Pan Gasket with Bolts Started

400 SBC - Thick 1-Pc Gasket with Bolts Mostly Snugged

 

Suggest, Before final assembly, place a small dollop of RTV into each of the four corners (Only where block meets cover at front, And where block meets rear main bearing cap).
IIRC, package insert recommends same. It matters.

 

I've used these before, on a Bigblock, and do remember recommendation of using RTV at the '4' corners but in the three boxes I have now, none of them had any instructions other than
the use of those plastic 'Snapups' that are used at the 4 corners. I know I've read that suggestion somewhere, apparently, it isn't included with the gasket box. Bu


t I definitely did add RTV to the corners.
Mike T - Prescott AZ