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Hi All, I have a restified 71 Coupe with a 406/700R4 combo, with LT headers, and I'm looking for recommendations on a new 168 tooth off-set bolt mini-starter, best resistance to heat soak etc?
I bought one from Summit back many years ago. It has the reduction gearing that makes it easy to crank up a high compression engine. It was rated for up to 18-1 compression and it is small enough that it cools off quickly. It is mounted below a set of long tube headers and has never even hinted of any issues. I would not suggest wrapping a gear drive starter as you should not have to.
Recently the MSD controllers offer a way to "pull the timing "up to 20*" which unloads the starter motor and allows the engine to spin-up with ease and crank faster while starting. The timing is put back in at ~400 rpm and the starting goes like normal from there. With this system I was able to even start with a factory starter because pulling the timing seems to make the starter not work as hard. With my gear drive starter, the BB starts without any problems. By the way, the starters for the BB and the SB GM engine are the same size which makes our lives a bit less expensive. When I bought the gear drive starter it was less than $200 and used a Toshiba electric motor.
I HATE using anything made by TOSHIBA after what they did to the United States in our efforts to make perfectly balanced (quiet) submarine propellers. We had a signed contract with Toshiba and they STILL built extra machines Designed by us here in the U.S.A. and then sold them to the Soviet Union very quietly allowing the Soviet Union a huge advance in machining perfectly balanced propellers that made less noise in the working environment. They should have to pay for violating a security contract with the United States. So anywhere you can, try and Avoid TOSHIBA products. Japan is not a "Good Ally" as they will help the Russians keep up with the U.S. for a few bucks..... This happened a while back but I will never forget someone who sells us out like Toshiba did.
I switched to a HolleyStealth Sniper EFI system and I was happy to see the same feature built into the software for the EFI. If you could incorporate this into your car's ignition system you would solve the hot starting issue. You might want to look into ways of unloading the starter other than the MSD ignition boxes. Having higher compression I used a MSDDigital Retard Box which allows me to pull timing in case I hear any pinging from my engine. I have four stages of timing that it will pull for me AS well as the start assist feature of pulling the timing while cranking. I am sure this feature is buried in other products as well, it is simply amazing what a difference it makes in starting a Big high compression engine when it is seriously HOT. Never an issue with hot starting or heat soaking anymore.
Just a side note, unrelated to your original question. A progression ignition distributor accomplishes the above with pulling timing during startup, and I would argue offers other advantages than the comparable MSD boxes.
I have an ignition cut-off switch hidden under the dash to remove timing from the crank sequence, and it allowed the standard HD truck starter to work ok for many years (and also as a anti-theft device), but the old standard HD truck starter is tired and I'm looking a a modern gear reduction mini starter to replace it (and save a few pounds).
I'm running 12* initial with HEI.
Interesting about Toshiba, didn't know that!
Last edited by doug_dayson; Mar 2, 2025 at 09:40 AM.
Never having heard of a "Progression Ignition Distributor" before I can see where it might be a good option for those who have not invested heavily in their ignition system with one manufacturer. The data logging feature is one thing I would be interested in. Being able to create my own timing curve has been very helpful but many distributors can do that. I will have to read more about the ideas behind their equipment. Thanks for showing it to me!
For me I was worried just how I was going to be able to start my BB without having the timing "pull back" feature. The gear drive can solve most of the problem but can still slows down when hot. When I had the chance to try it I was most impressed as it really makes starting when hot, a non-issue even for my engine.
I personally love the sound of a spark from my MSD ignition, it sounds more like a welder than an ignition system.
Never having heard of a "Progression Ignition Distributor" before I can see where it might be a good option for those who have not invested heavily in their ignition system with one manufacturer. The data logging feature is one thing I would be interested in. Being able to create my own timing curve has been very helpful but many distributors can do that. I will have to read more about the ideas behind their equipment. Thanks for showing it to me!
For me I was worried just how I was going to be able to start my BB without having the timing "pull back" feature. The gear drive can solve most of the problem but can still slows down when hot. When I had the chance to try it I was most impressed as it really makes starting when hot, a non-issue even for my engine.
I personally love the sound of a spark from my MSD ignition, it sounds more like a welder than an ignition system.
The cheap way I used back in the 90's when I built this C3 was to just have an ignition interrupt switch hidden under the dash, which also doubles as an anti-theft device. It just interrupts power to the distributor while the cranking gets up to speed then gets manually switched to start.
Last edited by doug_dayson; Mar 9, 2025 at 05:21 PM.
Any Vortec style '96-'99 mini starter from a parts store will work on a factory block. Kill switch on the ignition is a good idea for those running a lot of initial timing.
Any Vortec style '96-'99 mini starter from a parts store will work on a factory block. Kill switch on the ignition is a good idea for those running a lot of initial timing.
I second this... I'm using a cheap ebay version like this I bought 13 years ago for my high compression 355 and im swapping it over to my 406 now as its been flawless with my sidepipes and heat. These modern motor style starters are more powerful than the original boat anchor style that came on the car.
I tried 2 other racing style mini starters before this that have been sitting on my shelf as they would stick and one tore up my flywheel teeth. The vortec style just bolted up without the hassle of shimming and such which I had no luck with regardless of how well I followed the procedures.
Hmmm, the bolts and shims that were supposed to be sent with my new Chevy new starter didn't arrive with it?
Are the modern Chevy mini-starter bolts a different length, or can I use my old traditional HD starter bolts (it's still in the car so I can't measure right now and would like to have all the needed parts before doing the swap etc)?
Doug,
I assume you got the one I posted? Those Remy mini starters require 2 special bolts #12338064 that are different than the old stock ones. Send me a PM with your address. I think I have some spares here I could send you for the cost of the postage.
Last edited by stingr69; Mar 15, 2025 at 06:17 PM.
Doug,
I assume you got the one I posted? Those Remy mini starters require 2 special bolts #12338064 that are different than the old stock ones. Send me a PM with your address. I think I have some spares here I could send you for the cost of the postage.
Hi, that's very kind of you, though I won't hear from the EBAY Vendor until Monday I guess (they're in WA state, and likely worked a half Sat as they replied to me saying that the bolts and shims were not coming separately, and asked for pics of the part number on the box which I sent, but then no reply so I'm guessing they went home for the weekend?).
This is the one I got, does it need shorter bolts?
The Remy PG260 needs the special bolts. Rock Auto sent me too many bolts on accident when I bought them. Genuine GM bolts for the Remy PG260. Let me know.
EDIT : ATTACHED TECHNICAL BULLETIN.
Last edited by stingr69; Mar 16, 2025 at 07:03 PM.
Question. Does the PG260 work with points ignition? Pics show it only has the start signal terminal. I assume you just move the resistor bypass wire to the start signal terminal on the solenoid?
There used to be a PG260 that had a terminal for the ignition resistor bypass but I have not seen them available for some time. You might be out of luck.
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SB 406 Mini-Starter Recomendations?
