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I'm a little confused by the parts in your installed timing set. That's a GM cam sprocket, not something that comes in a Cloyes kit (at least not the 2 I've bought), and was a '60s GM truck part. The crank sprocket isn't a GM part. Are those May/June 1997 dates? Where did you get the kit?
I'd be inclined to buy a new Cloyes 9-1100 rather than use the mix'n'match parts that appears here. They're inexpensive and you know they match.
O.P. has the entire oil pan "hanging" from four extra long bolts at the corners so as to ease the burden of timing cover removal / install.
I must admit, that is pretty clever way of doing that.
fstntq,
That cover certainly did take a hit from a foreign object while it was running. The crank seal damage indicates the same.
Foreign object? As you know, there is a large oil drain hole in the block at the front of the lifter valley.
Any object that could fit through the drain hole would then eventually be introduced to the whirling timing chain. (rattle)
But what is it?
Lifter clip?
Pushrod ball-end?
Jimmy Hoffa's wedding ring?
A small tool?
Whatever it is, I bet it's in the bottom of the pan now.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Aug 9, 2025 at 05:19 PM.
If you look at the cam drive pin in post 12, it looks advanced. The dots are probably not 100% aligned I know, but it still looks to be installed "advanced" ....even if the dots were aligned.
Maybe the bolts were loose in the pan picture, but the pan IS leaking at the front. A later service replacement pan with the early gasket WILL leak there. If the OP measured the front of the pan it would help.
Thanks, I can't take full credit.
I went to school on Fel-Pro's bits. Because most of us likely don't swap in their 1 piece gaskets on an engine stand like on You tube, they provide these
standoffs to hold up the gasket while you align the pan on your back on the garage floor! The went the extra mile though. These pins will also hold the weight of an empty pan up while you go around and put in all the bolts, which they also supply because with the built in gasket shoulders, they need longer bolts than stock.
While you are spot on that the seal damage and the cover damage are in the same area around the seal, only the outer seal and the inner cover are damaged. I couldn't see damage on the wiper/inner part of the seal or anything on the balancer snub either which you might expect if something did pass through. I think the black ooze is the seal breaking down which is not good after only 4 miles of use!
Originally Posted by HeadsU.P.
stingr69,
O.P. has the entire oil pan "hanging" from four extra long bolts at the corners so as to ease the burden of timing cover removal / install.
I must admit, that is pretty clever way of doing that.
fstntq,
That cover certainly did take a hit from a foreign object while it was running. The crank seal damage indicates the same.
Whatever it is, I bet it's in the bottom of the pan now.
You're looking at the engine approach TDC cyl1, so the other dot is out of the picture near 12 o'clock. Here it is at TDC #6
Yes, either the pan or the cover is leaking in the front. I'm now betting on the cover. LT-1 had a very specific pan and I'm sure this is original. I couldn't measure the 1/8 difference between a "thin" or "thick" application but everything this early is "thin" and that's what I installed.
Originally Posted by stingr69
If you look at the cam drive pin in post 12, it looks advanced. The dots are probably not 100% aligned I know, but it still looks to be installed "advanced" ....even if the dots were aligned.
Maybe the bolts were loose in the pan picture, but the pan IS leaking at the front. A later service replacement pan with the early gasket WILL leak there. If the OP measured the front of the pan it would help.
Some posters are obsessed with the cam timing, the dots, the alignment, advanced or not.
Regardless, if the timing was truly off, even 180* off, that would not cause a metal-on-metal rattle and damage. No correlation.
The O.P. said it ran fine, never missed a beat. So, the cam timing is spot-on.
Then later a rattle began.
fstntq,
I would not "button this thing up" until I found the root of the cause.
After all your hard work saving the pan gasket and new fresh oil still in the pan . . . . . . . . . .
I would still drop the pan and have a gander. Run a magnet around the bottom and look REAL close at the pump pickup screen.
You can buy one-gallon empty plastic water jugs at Walmart for less than a dollar. With a big funnel, I would drain the new oil into the "clean" jug to reuse.
You have four Qts that should fit the jug.
Unless you just robbed a bank and sirens are a few blocks away, there is no hurry to get this project done.
Slow down. Start over.
OP fstntq
? What is P/N of FP Oilpan Set 1-pc pan gasket you are showing in above pics ? It's on the FP OS' box label.
? Does your FP 1-pc pan gasket have just One dipstick hole ? OR Two (for either R or L use) ?
FWIW, FP refers to those handy included plastic bits (to hold pan gasket to block when working beneath motor) as 'SnapUps'.
I've used them when working below; never when motor on stand. I appreciate SnapUps.
? We see how your dampers snout was badly worn; causing you to sleeve it.
? Have you Verified the damper's outer (inertia) ring has Not slipped AND also Verified damper's rubber is fully-intact and Not cracked Nor gooey? Is it possible the origin of unidentified 'black goo' may be traced to deteriorating damper rubber ? Dampers and their rubber have a finite life; one foreshortened by heat, oil and age. Elastomer dampers do slip and fail. Perhaps yours should be replaced or remanufactured ?
? Which evidence have you relied upon to determine your motor had 'not been into' prior to your recent work ? Share ?
? What is P/N of Cloyes Single-Roller set you've suggested you might install next ?
FWIW, I specified Smokey installed OE Nylon-clad sets; AFAIK all such OE GM sets use a Morse® aka Link-Belt® chain (never a roller chain) AFAIK.
OP fstntq
? What is P/N of FP Oilpan Set 1-pc pan gasket you are showing in above pics ? It's on the FP OS' box label. OS 34509T
? Does your FP 1-pc pan gasket have just One dipstick hole ? OR Two (for either R or L use) ? 1 dip stick inlet
FWIW, FP refers to those handy included plastic bits (to hold pan gasket to block when working beneath motor) as 'SnapUps'.
I've used them when working below; never when motor on stand. I appreciate SnapUps.
? We see how your dampers snout was badly worn; causing you to sleeve it.
barely catching a finger nail but why not as cover was included.
? Have you Verified the damper's outer (inertia) ring has Not slipped AND also Verified damper's rubber is fully-intact and Not cracked Nor gooey? Is it possible the origin of unidentified 'black goo' may be traced to deteriorating damper rubber ? Dampers and their rubber have a finite life; one foreshortened by heat, oil and age. Elastomer dampers do slip and fail. Perhaps yours should be replaced or remanufactured ?
Nope balancer is in fine fettle and all marks line up.
? Which evidence have you relied upon to determine your motor had 'not been into' prior to your recent work ? Share ? 50 years worth of receipts from PO and original nylon coated cam gear in perfect shape.
? What is P/N of Cloyes Single-Roller set you've suggested you might install next ?
I have a 3100K (very close to stock unit not a roller) but not sure I'll use it.
FWIW, I specified Smokey installed OE Nylon-clad sets; AFAIK all such OE GM sets use a Morse® aka Link-Belt® chain (never a roller chain) AFAIK.
Yeah, not going anywhere quickly and easy enough to siphon the oil out of the pan with the clearance. Then I could also install a Fumoto as well. I'll check the pan but my concern is I find "nothing" and am no closer to an answer when I go to button it up again. But will report and pan findings.
Originally Posted by HeadsU.P.
fstntq,
I would not "button this thing up" until I found the root of the cause.
After all your hard work saving the pan gasket and new fresh oil still in the pan . . . . . . . . . .
I would still drop the pan and have a gander. Run a magnet around the bottom and look REAL close at the pump pickup screen.
.
