Pulled the intake and cleaned all 16 lifters today. No smoking guns, they were all clean as a whistle. There is a passage at the bottom of the plunger that I rinsed and blew out with air but could not inspect for junk, it's possible some of those were dirty.

Comical side note - not once but three times I launched retainer clips around the shop re-installing them. All three times I found them! Springy little bastards. After 6 or 7 lifters I got the hang of it.

I did use the priming tool to check oil supply before I started cleaning lifters and four rockers appeared to not be getting any oil. I did blow out some pushrods, nothing stuck in any of them. When my new pushrods come in, I snug everything up and check with the priming tool again before I put the intake back on. I forgot to look closely at the rockers, I'll do that tomorrow.

I did screw up the rod length the first time, but I never would have taken the 0.100" suggestion as gospel. I also still don't care where the stud pad is.

 

^^^THIS^^^
be proactive; do it prior to each install in each motor.

* flush out new pushrods as well.

 

How do you do this? I can run the motor for about ten seconds before the oil is spraying everywhere from the rockers. I did look at the bottom of every lifter, tho, and they all had a nice circle pattern.

Which brings up another detail - when I run the pump priming tool with the rockers installed, some rockers get copious oil (mostly toward the rear and the oil pump), 1 and 4 exhaust and 2 and 6 intake got nothing, the rest looked like they were getting oil but not excessive. I remember when I built the engine in my Pontiac the thing at the time was to put pipe cleaners in the pushrods, not only to limit the oil flow but to balance it. Looking at more recent posts on other sites, this is not done anymore, but is there any reason to limit the oil flow through the pushrods?

 

Scott,
you will need to rotate the engine a bit to expose the other lifters to the oiling gallery. Just rotate the engine a little and run the primer tool again. If you get oil, rotate a little more and keep going. They are not all going to oil up at the same position.

 

This ain't a pontiac and there's Every reason to Not limit oil flow thru sbc or BBC PRs. The more oil thru PRs, the more oil to lube and cool rockers and valve springs. FYI valve springs get Very hot; too much heat kills them. Many race motors have dedicated VS oil squirters. Not needed here if all bits are working as designed.

You ask How do you see lifters spinning. Get a junk tin valve cover or two and cut some viewing slots / holes in top of it so that you can both see and adjust while motor running. BTW, if PR is spinning, that's prima facie evidence the lifter is also; but just because PR is Not spinning does not mean lifter not spinning. It helps to paint a dot of bright yellow enamel on Clean edge of lifter and Clean shaft of PR. Caution: if you lube lifter bores or lifters' sides with anything more viscous than light motor oil, that can prevent lifters from spinning. Bottom aka Face aka Foot of lifters Require some sort of heavy, viscous hi-pressure lube; only on bottoms, and on lobes Not on lifter sides or bores. Moly Paste or I prefer CMD extreme pressure lube #3. A dab on PR tips and valve tips as well. CMD#3 works well on firearms also.

As stingr69 advises, rotate motor as you're running primer; cam turns at 1/2 speed of crank, it'll take at least 2 full revs (perhaps more) for each-all lifters to become aligned to receive max oil. A 1/2 drive Elec drill motor usually has enough grunt to do the job. Air drill as well. Battery drills often lay down early.

 

Right, I didn't think of that.

All good feedback, thanks.
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Hello again Scott,

You have done a great job figuring out the problem and then fixing it yourself! That is such a great feeling when you solve the problem yourself and even better when you fix it with your own hands. My Compliments.

I have never heard of "watching the lifters turning" in the bores. That has been one of those things you assume is working if the engine is running properly.

This has been a learning experience for me as well as at some point I would like to try a set of modern Aluminum cylinder heads. I had read that some of the heads have their exhaust ports raised and thus require a special set of headers and a special intake as well because of the raised ports in the heads. There are a lot of things that I need to remember if you want to make the new heads work. Thanks for helping us learn a bit here today!

Chris

 

generally if the pushrod is spinning that means the lifter is spinning . I think in the old Crane Cams directions they said to verify pushrods spinning .

 

Thanks, Chris, but I'm not sure I've completely solved it yet. After cleaning all the lifters and installing the new, correct pushrods I did get oiling to all the rockers, and I did have to roll the engine to get 'em all. That's a detail that I wasn't aware of - the recessed band around the lifter body is not always exposed to the oil galley but cuts off partway up the bore when the valve is lifting? I guess it makes sense if the idea is to have some cushion at the start of lift but trap the oil at higher lift.

I found a few rockers were not quite lined up on the valve tips, so this morning I'm adjusting guide plates and then re-assembling everything to see if it runs quiet.

I also checked all the rockers for play, they all have some end-play on the trunnions, but no 'wiggle' that would indicate loose bearings. When installed I can move them slightly back and forth across the valve tip due to the end play, I assume that's normal? If I get them centered with the guides the rollers should always be fully on the valve tips.

Will post results.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

 

Got it running this morning, no change, still ticking. Today I plan to pull the oil filter and look for metal, do a compression test and drain the gas and get fresh gas in there. Gas you say? That's because I can't pinpoint it to the valve train and it almost sounds like detonation. I added some fresh gas this spring, but more than half the tank is a year old. The timing if set and the distributor is all set up per Lar's instructions.

I guess I'll pull the valve covers and look (again) at all of the lifters while cranking the motor and see if they're all uniform.

I also just bought some 3/8" rocker studs. I have a set of Comp Cams stamped roller tip rockers that I can try. I don't like how much end play there is in those Proform roller rockers. I only bought them because they got some good reviews here and I needed something that would fit the 7/16" studs.

Frustrating...

 

I had an annoying tick on a fresh motor once and chased it like you . Pulled the timing cover to check the bolts on the cam .Adjusted the valves many times . Everything was great .Turns out there was a small exhaust leak from the alternator mount on the manifold but it sounded just like a lifter ticking .

 

I Know you've written you've tightened everything Including Header Bolts; but perhaps that ticking sound IS An Exhaust Leak at header flange(s) ?
As you indicate, that old gas may be causing spark-rattle as some of the higher-octane fractions may have evaporated; maybe that's the tick you're hearing ? Maybe the tick has more than one source ?

Oh, and I see you indicate the roller rockers you think may be questionable are marketed by Proform. Compared to other roller rockers, IMO, Proform rockers are garbage. I wouldn't recommend Proform roller rockers or valvetrain on anyone's motor; much less my own. Regardless if Proform bought a license from GM or not. A lot of Proform products are garbage. I still have a Proform harmonic balancer install tool. I've never used it for anything but as a Loaner. It's a replacement for the first Proform tool that failed me when its butter-soft tip snapped off in a crank snout. PITA China Junk! Instead, I have and use a BHJ $brand$ tool; and don't loan that one.

As for stamped roller tip rocker arms, I wouldn't use or install those either; no matter which brand. AFAIK, Comp does not offer a stamped roller tip; Comp does offer a "Magnum" investment cast, ball-pivot roller tip design which is considerably better than stamped. And FWIW, Very Little of any friction of any sbc rocker arm is at the valve tip; most all friction is in fulcrum anyway. Lotsa times people give good reviews to things they really have no evidence (or understanding) of, one way or the other. And some can't stomach admitting to themselves if/when their purchase decision sucks. GM had decades of sbc rocker arm experience before it tested and designed the LS platform; LS rocker arms have a roller fulcrum aka trunnion but a slider aka shoe tip. And, they work rather well.
I hope you soon find & fix whatever that tick is, and that you choose good quality valvetrain parts.

 

Yea, I'm getting down to bad rockers. I checked the headers at the heads and the exhaust flange, all tight. Today's health check went well, I drained the oil and cut up the filter, almost nothing in either. The tiniest bit of grit in the filter, but no metal. The compression test showed 185 psi +/- 5 psi in all cylinders. Nice! The stock engine made 160-165, which I thought was impressive considering how weak the cam and static compression were.

Not impressed with Proform. The Comp Cams rockers I have are the Magnums, my bad. If the good gas doesn't do it, I'll swap those in when the studs get here.

Thanks again!

 

Scott,
the Magnum rockers are good pieces as long as you do not exceed the open pressure limits. If the rockers you are running now are bad, the Magnums should get rid of the clatter. I have been using them on most everything I build. Not many failures with them.

 

Not the rockers. I replaced the Proforms with the Comp Cams Magnums, same noise. Just before I left yesterday on vacation I had a thought to use the hose in my ear again instead of the stethoscope and check for exhaust leaks. I was poking around with the hose end and think I found the source, but I still don't get it.

Because the Trickflow heads don't have a cooling water crossover large enough for the choke tube, I changed to an electric choke and made a plate and gasket to cover the hole in the intake manifold:


Choke tube cover
The ticking is coming from this cover, specifically the right side of the cover. OK, not my best fabrication work. At first I thought 'ahah, vacuum leak'. But no, that's water passage under there. The gasket doesn't leak, so what the hell?

I'm writing to Trickflow and Mike Jones to see if they have any ideas. But does this ring a bell at all?

 

That's an exhaust crossover. No water. It's an exhaust leak you hear. There are a few ways to remedy this.

 

Well, crap, I didn't know that. Or forgot, it sounds familiar now that it's obvious. That totally makes sense though based on the sound. I'd been chasing around the carb with the stethoscope, but that wasn't getting the air-flow thing that was so loud with the hose. I just lost 3 weeks of driving and hours of shop time over a leaky gasket. What a dope....

Thanks again for all the feedback. Will fix it when I get home in two weeks.

 

These nearly 40 posts are testament to just how restricted diagnostics "field of view" can be on a car repair forum. Suggest withdraw those queries about this; stingr69 nailed it.

 

Not sure what your point is here. I must have read two dozen links and posts on this and other websites about ticking noises and not a single one mentioned checking for leaks at the crossover. There's no doubt that this was a brain fart on my part, but the thread might save someone a lot of trouble in the future.

 

My point means: Quite simply, nothing, NOTHING, equals or betters an experienced, in-person, eyes-on, hands-on assessment; certainly Not a virtual forum/visit. That's often akin to finding that needle in the haystack, while looking through a Soda Straw. Being there means a lot.
My comment(s) were not and are not a critique of OP ScottinMaine; nor of any other particular individual.