I got my engine running after installing new Trickflow heads and a Mike Jones cam the other day. The cam break-in went fine, ran great, no weird noises. I took it for a ride and it developed some mild, intermittent ticking sound. I used the stethoscope and couldn't pinpoint any one spot on the valve train or anywhere else. I looked for loose stuff, tightened all the header and exhaust bolts, and re-set all the lifters to 1/2 turn preload. Still ticking, maybe getting worse. I noticed that most of the lifters were 'firm' after contact through the whole 1/2 turn, but 3 or 4 of the lifters felt 'soft' for maybe 1/4 turn and then got firmer. Mike Jones suggests taking apart the soft lifters and cleaning them, that sometimes in manufacturing some debris gets left in and they won't pump up. I read some other posts about this and got the same advice.

Is this really common? One experienced poster on another forum said 'always disassemble and clean new lifters'. Do I just disassemble, rinse out with parts cleaner, poke all the holes to make sure they're not blocked and reassemble? I assume I'll used the oil pump priming tool when I get 'em all back in and make sure they're getting oil up to the rockers. I might even run the tool again before I take it apart to see if it's clear which ones aren't oiling.

 

Hello Scott,

I had rebuilt a 427 into an L88 engine and after I got it running the engine started doing exactly what you are experiencing. I drove it up to a gathering and then on the way home it was getting louder and louder.
After pulling the valve cover over the side where the noise was coming from and it turned out to be a Plugged Push-rod that was keeping the oil from getting to one of my exhaust lifters and the noise just kept on getting louder until finally I saw some discoloration of the dual roller rocker arm and we knew exactly which cylinder was having the issue. When you describe the noise as intermittent it throws a wrench into my troubleshooting.

This was an easy fix as we simply replaced the push rod and the rocker. The push-rods were verified to be clear before installation and somehow the one got plugged up and kept the lubrication oil from getting to the rocker arm.

Are you absolutely sure that your push-rods are the right length? With different parts you might have a different length push-rod needed for your engine.

Don't forget to spin the engine over while you are pre-lubing the engine. This ensures the oil gets to every surface possible. Did you soak the lifters in oil for an hour or more before installing them?

Sometimes a bad oil filter relief valve can make the pressure do weird things. What kind of oil pressures are you getting with your new engine? What weight oil are you using?

Keep us posted and we should be able to resolve this for you!

Best regards,
Chris

 

Roller cam or flat tappet?

 

Scott,

No, it's not common to have to clean brand new lifters. I assume you paid good money for top quality lifters and they should have been inspected & cleaned before leaving manufacturing.

As noted above, I too question your valvetrain geometry. Anytime new aluminum heads are purchased and installed, you must verify the "new" pushrod length.

How could the rod length change?
The new rocker arm stud pad is usually higher than stock location. Not much, but enough to make the rocker arm farther away from the camshaft.
You now have a pushrod that is too short with stock specs (7.8"). You will never get the valve-lash correct. Clack-clack-clack.

Most aluminum head manufacturers will state: Verify Pushrod Length (with a checking tool, $25)
Most heads will need about 0.100 longer rod. Again, must be verified.

So, before you start draining the coolant, pulling the dizzy, Intake, etc. I would verify the correct pushrods are truly in place!

 

Flat tappet cam. I used the adjustable rod to verify the rod length, they were actually a tiny bit shorter (7.625") than stock and bought rods from Trickflow. I thought this was unusual, but I measured the stock and the new heads and sure enough, the valve tips were a bit lower on the new heads. Interesting point, though, I'll double check the pattern now that they've run a bit.

 

Chris - I'll check all the pushrods, I did look at one that was on a 'soft' lifter and it was clear. I used the oil pump tool that goes through the distributor hole and just spins the pump directly. I did think some rockers got more oil than others, but I'll try that again to verify. Made ~35 lbs of oil pressure all through break-in, and I used the PennGrade 1 break-in oil recommended by Mike Jones. Also the PennGrade1 engine lube eveywhere.

 

Oops, I just re-measured the deck surface to valve stem height, and the new heads are actually ~1/8" taller. Here's some pics:


I blackened the tip and rolled it a few times, here's the pattern. This is #6 intake.

Side view of the geometry, valve closed.

#2 tips, the partial imprint on the intake valve tip doesn't look right?

 

Be sure to look for looseness in the rocker arm trunion bearings. They might have trash in there and ruin them in short time.

Hope you bought the lifters from Mike. No warranty without that.

The valve cover mounting surface is higher on aftermarket heads so not sure how you are measuring things. Good to reduce leaks and clear the valvetrain.

The rocker arm stud pad height is not a factor. Different pad heights just end up with more threads exposed above / below the rocker arm nuts. The valve stem and the pushrod tip and rocker arm itself stay in the same place no matter the stud pad height, so no change in geometry.

 

The rocker arm stud height is an indirect factor of determining the length needed for proper valve train geometry.

Owners manual for aluminum heads: Likely 0.100 longer pushrod will be required.
You think the cylinder head manufacturer just makes that statement up for the hell of it?

The other issue is running out of threads on the rocker nut adjustment. Known as bottoming-out.
The main concern is however, witness rub mark on the valve-stem.

If the rocker stud pad height was not a factor, there would be no reason to even check the pushrod length measurement.
Who doesn't do that?

 

Head manufacturers move the valve seats from stock. If the valve stem tip rides higher, you need longer pushrods. If the lift changed, you need different pushrods if the base circle diameter on the cam changed, you probably need to check your geometry..... PLENTY of reasons to check.

The stud screws up or down in the same plane CENTERLINE.... but the rocker arm geometry DOES NOT CHANGE because of the difference in boss height.

This is getting old.

 

OP Scott
Smart money's always been on cleaning new lifters (new oil pump etc as well); for the reason Jones & others stated.
'though, not every hack spends much of that.

* do Not mix parts among lifters; each lifter must remain a discrete unit.

 

What I measured just to get an idea was the deck (head gasket surface) to valve stem tip. Cam base circle is the same as stock. Don't really care about the stud pad, the rocker just floats above it. Also, I didn't use that measurement to determine rod length, I used the adjustable rod to get the pattern centered. But, centered or not, the geometry ain't right looking at the side view, and the pattern looks wider to me than it should be. I'll try again later today with the adjustable and see if I can get it centered with a narrower pattern.

Lifters were provided by Mike with the cam.

 

Scott,
Did you adjust the guide plates to get the rocker arm tips aligned with the valve stems? That #2 witness mark is a concern. Not all the way across pattern is rather odd. Definately look at the tip alignment/condition and the condition of the trunion bearings. This could be the source of the noise.

Getting the pattern centered is not as important as getting it narrow IMO. If you end up with a narrow pattern with a slight bias to the outside you would be fine. Better to be short sweep with higher pressure closer to the middle at full lift. That said, your noisy valvetrain is not caused by the pushrods.

is this cam hydraulic or solid. Hydraulic will compress under the high valve spring pressure a bit and give you a false witness mark on the valve. Still, not the noisy issue here.

 

Thanks, Mark. I thought I had everything lined up but I'll revisit the guide plates too. I have so many sunny weather things to do, I need a couple rainy days to spend in the garage....

Hydraulic flat tappet cam.

 

Chris/Mark - when you say 'trunnion bearing', I assume you're talking about the center pivot bearing, not the roller tip? They all have a little end play, but don't seem to be loose otherwise. I'd go with the stock rockers as another check, but they don't fit the 7/16" stud.

In spite of the odd witness mark on #2 intake valve tip, all the rollers seem to line up fine on the valve tips. Good thing, there's not much adjustment in the guides.

Based on more trials with the adjustable, bought 7.9" pushrods from Trickflow. Will get back with results.

 

On all sbc/BBC roller rockers I've seen, the trunnion bearing is actually two discrete (but alike) bearings. Typically they're a caged needle bearing that's referred to in some quarters as a torrington bearing. Either side or both could fail or become dislodged.

Aftermarket OE replacement type shoe aka slider stamped rockers available for either 3/8" or 7/16" studs. Of course, screw-in studs available in both sizes as well. All are 7/16" on bottom.

Good you sourced your lifters from Jones; he didn't manufacture them. Regardless, they may need complete disassembly and cleaning. Compressed air. I reassemble w/ kero or atf. I do not attempt to fill. I task the oil pump to fill them.

Have you verified that all 16 are spinning while motor running ? It's an imperative they all spin.

 

The rocker arms need to be checked at the fulcrum bearing in the middle as well as the condition of the roller at the tip. Just look for one that is different in the amount of free play. Definately look hard at why the witness mark is different on that one valve stem tip.

I agree with using the pre oiler tool to fill the lifters. Soaking them before install is just not a legitimate service procedure.

 

H-m-m-m-m-,

That's what that ugly guy up there in post 4 said.
About 0.100 longer.

Which is the amount the stud pad is usually raised on aluminum aftermarket heads.
Just a coincidence, must be.

 

It is a coincidence. Since the rockers are adjustable, the height of the stud is irrelevant.

 

ticking from soft lifters happens sometimes with new ones—debris gets stuck from manufacturing. Take the soft ones apart, clean ‘em with brake cleaner, poke the holes to clear any gunk, and reassemble with fresh oil. Use an oil pump primer to check oil flow to the rockers before and after. Should fix it. If not, check pushrod length or rocker alignment.